George Galloway banned from Canada

[bellyscratch]

The British MP for the RESPECT party is being refused entry into Canada on ground of national security because of his views on Afghanistan while Canadian troops are there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned-canada

[Charles Xavier]

We was to speak in Toronto!

[brigadista]

how ridiculous

[Holden Caulfield]

Although Galloway is a tosser, I think this is an example of why we should support whatever draconian measures the state takes against fascists (unless they are done under the pressure of organised bodies of the working class) as they will also be used against the left.

No-Platform should come from the people not the state.

[brigadista]

Although Galloway is a tosser, I think this is an example of why we should support whatever draconian measures the state takes against fascists (unless they are done under the pressure of organised bodies of the working class) as they will also be used against the left.

No-Platform should come from the people not the state.


but he is a great old style orator.. i love listening to him speak.. interesting they find him so threatening..

[Bilan]

Way to make an otherwise pathetic bourgeois politician feel an enflamed sense of self-importance.
Though, I suppose for those here who support the bourgeois state clamping down on far right political groups, they will gladly use them against the left as well.

[Holden Caulfield]

but he is a great old style orator.. i love listening to him speak.. interesting they find him so threatening..

He is a good orator, it really is a shame he is such a tit.

[brigadista]

He is a good orator, it really is a shame he is such a tit.

i'm not disagreeing with you..:)

[fabilius]

but he is a great old style orator.. i love listening to him speak.. interesting they find him so threatening..

Maybe they are afraid of old style lefties.

I agree with what a lot of people say about Galloway. Obviously though he has a lot of good points in various areas.

[LOLseph Stalin]

This whole Afghanistan thing is one little factor that makes me ashamed to be Canadian. Yes, they were in there to get rid of the Taliban, but i'm pretty sure that's done now. They can leave. The enemy is defeated. Besides, we keep having more casualties. It's like a mini Iraq.

[Charles Xavier]

The Taliban never did anything to Canada, US or any other country.

The whole reason we went to Afganistan was to build an oil pipeline

[LOLseph Stalin]

The whole reason we went to Afganistan was to build an oil pipeline

Exactly my point. The invasion was all based on Capitalist, Imperialist greed.

[Prairie Fire]

Yes, they were in there to get rid of the Taliban, but i'm pretty sure that's done now.


This is why Revleft needed the HU, right here.:rolleyes:

In addition to all of the increasingly distasteful trends that I have noticed here as of late, blatant imperialist apologism seems to be Kosher now as well.

Now, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the IMT (which you claim to support) does not support military aggression abroad in the patronizing name of saving the brown peoples from "big bad governments".

I know you are a Trot, but you really need to ditch bourgeois political analysis; the fact of the matter is that the west's main reasons for entering Afghanistan were not about "removing the Taliban". The west armed, funded, and created the elements that would go on to become the Taliban in Afghanistan. Up until the invasion of Afghanistan, US multi-nationals continued to do buisness with the Taliban government, especially the infamous Caspian sea natural gas pipeline.

The current imperialist-approved "President" of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, is a former member of the Taliban ,and every crime that the United States grills the Taliban for, they continue to tolerate among the Northern Alliance and their warlord allies in Afghanistan (appalling Womyns rights, opium growing, un-democratic legislative process, etc).

The United States couldn't really care less about the attrocities and anti-democratic government of the Taliban. Saying that the United States went into Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban, is like saying that they invaded a country "to kill Osama Bin Ladin". Either way, it is justifying a military invasion and occupation, that can't be justified.

Don't mistake this as support for the Taliban; it is support for national soveriegnty. If the people of Afghanistan wanted to overthrow their leadership, they would, just as they had in the past. It is not the "white mans burden" to bring "democracy" to countries around the world,in the way that the insatiable empires of Europe claimed to bring "civilization" to the countries under their heel.



They can leave. The enemy is defeated.


So, you think that it is perfectly legitimate for a large imperialist country to form governments and remove governments as they see fit in other countries? Fuck national soveriegnty, fuck rule of law, it is okay for a country to go remove a foriegn government and impose a new one on the people?

That's not even a Trotskyist line, just ethno-centric national chauvenism and advocating aggressive imperialist power. This is why, in my country, the IMT are cozy with the Social-democrats. Just like the other trash of the Second international, they justify bourgeois wars of aggression abroad.



Besides, we keep having more casualties.


Okay there is a few things wrong with that:

1.) Who is this "We" that is taking casualties in Afghanistan? If you are refering to the Royal Canadian Armed Forces, what is the connection between them and us?
I have no say in the least where they are deployed, and neither do the overwhelming majority of Canadians ( Who consistently are against the war in Afghanistan, in every poll).

This reflects the liberal "support our troops" line that infests the moderate left and renders them impotent. Revolutionaries in what constitutes Canada, on the other hand, know that we don't have any troops.

Learn the history of this country:
- Upper Canada Rebellion, 1837
-Lower Canada Rebellion , 1837
- Red River rebellion, 1869
- North West rebellion, 1885,
- Winnipeg General Strike, 1919
-October crisis,1970
-Oka,1990
-Gustafsen Lake 1995
-Ipperwash 1995
-Caledonia, 2006-present

"Our troops" have turned their guns on the working people of Canada as often as anyone else.

To any Canadian on this board who is still infected with knee-jerk patriotism and a sense of kinship with the military, ask yourself one question: If "your troops" in the Royal Canadian Armed Forces where ordered to kill you, do you think that they would hesitate?

Given the history of this country and knowledge of the current practices of the military, the only logical answer is No.

I have no troops, and neither does anyone else in my economic class. The Canadian Armed forces are an enforcment arm of the bourgeoisie, and should be regarded as such.

2.) As for all of the RCAF soldiers dying in Afghanistan, since the invasion in 2001, the official death toll is 112 soldiers all together. Now, in my province, 166 workers died on the job site in this year alone! That is in one year, in one province out of the entire country.

Canadians statistically have a better chance of dying on a construction site than in Kandahar, but where is their sympathy? April 28th, for injured and killed workers, is obscure and not even an official holiday; November 11th, a day of fervent military worship, is sanctified as a veritible holy day in our country.

Spare me the fucking ribbon campaigns and sob stories in the newspaper headlines. Occupation forces in Afghanistan play in the rain, and sometimes they get wet. End of story.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I knwo you are a Trot, but you really need to ditch bourgeois political analysis; the fact of the matter is that the west's main reasons for entering Afghanistan were not about "removing the Taliban". The west armed, funded, and created the elements that would go on to become the Taliban in Afghanistan. Up until the invasion of Afghanistan, US multi-nationals continued to do buisness with the Taliban government, especially the infamous Caspian sea natural gas pipeline.


Well yes, it was imperialist. Also, people were being oppressed by the Taliban.


Either way, it is justifying a military invasion and occupation, that can't be justified.


Who said I was supporting it?


That's not even a Trotskyist line, just ethno-centric national chauvenism and advocating aggressive imperialist power. This is why, in my country, the IMT are cozy with the Social-democrats. Just like the other trash of the Second international, they justify bourgeois wars of aggression abroad.


Once again, I don't support imperialism.


I have no say in the least where they are deployed, and neither do the overwhelming majority of Canadians ( Who consisyently are against the war in Afghanistan, in every poll).

Exactly. It's the corrupted government sending them places to do things in their interests. The soldiers themselves have absolutely no say. Those troops in Afghanistan right now were forced there.


To any Canadian on this board who is still infected with knee-jerk patriotism and a sense of kinship with the military, ask yourself one question: If "your troops" in the Royal Canadian Armed Forces where ordered to kill you, do you think that they would hesitate?


I don't support the armed forces nor do I believe leftists should unless they're willing to help in our struggle.

[scarletghoul]

Ha, this is crazy.

[LOLseph Stalin]

pretty much, yea. I think today is the day everybody wants to pick on me. :( Oh well. Fuck them.

[Charles Xavier]

Prairie Fire, is 100% correct however uncomradely. I would like to say that Everyone is says trotskyists when they first learn marxism, including myself, I thought I was a trotskyist, but it was through criticism and self-criticism I realized the bullshit. I didn't even like Fidel Castro when I was first a "marxist", I hung onto slogans like degenerate working state or state capitalist. But I realised a deeper understanding was needed and learned from my mistakes.

InsertNameHere, noone is picking on you it is a criticism of your analysis. I understand you are learning we must help each other understand and learn. I would suggest learning before involving yourself into any organization to understand if it is right for you or not. I have had bad experience with Fightback in my province who disrupt meetings and proposals that don't benefit them.

[LOLseph Stalin]

InsertNameHere, noone is picking on you it is a criticism of your analysis. I understand you are learning we must help each other understand and learn. Though I know you aren't involved in any organization.

At least somebody understands. These people tried to call me an imperialist. Not cool. Also, about the Fidel Castro thing i'm not against him. In fact, I feel that Cuba is the closest thing we have to a Communist country. And no, i'm not involved in any organizations because i'm isolated in a crap religious, Conservative town. :(

[pastradamus]

Though its strange that the canadian government refused to admit Galloway and though I think he's a fantastic orator I also think he's a complete hypocrate and totally False for one simple reason - he insists on taking his full MP salary rather than the average industrial wage - This is unbecoming of any elected socialist and this is why I dislike him.

[Charles Xavier]

On a parliamentary level seems like the NDP are condemning the move, The liberals are taking no position and the conservatives are in favour.

The result of George Galloway being refused entry is linked with recent immigration reform which allows the Minister to veto an application even if they are clearly acceptable.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Wasn't it the Liberals who originally sent the troops to Afghanistan?

[Charles Xavier]

yes

[Magdalen]

Though its strange that the canadian government refused to admit Galloway and though I think he's a fantastic orator I also think he's a complete hypocrate and totally False for one simple reason - he insists on taking his full MP salary rather than the average industrial wage - This is unbecoming of any elected socialist and this is why I dislike him.

Not to mention the wages the he receives for his radio and television programmes! Of course, we should always remember that Galloway was pushed from the racist, imperialist Labour Party - he certainly didn't jump. Galloway still waxes on about 'reclaiming Labour for socialism'. It's patently obvious that he is about as much of a threat to Canada as a fruit-fly.

[Wanted Man]

I basically agree with what Holden Caulfield said. The idea that a state can restrict the freedom of travel for certain firebrands in the name of "public order" is unappealing.

To contextualise: it was disgusting when the fascist scum whined about "free speech" when the far-right MP Geert Wilders was banned from the UK. But that ban was not a victory by any means, on the contrary. Not only do these things strengthen them, but it can also happen to anyone else.


pretty much, yea. I think today is the day everybody wants to pick on me. :( Oh well. Fuck them.
Nobody should feel like they're being "picked on", and if that happens, that's fucked up. But if you're being strongly criticised on a purely political level, maybe it's not just someone else's fault.

For example, one thing I notice is that you strongly change your positions almost on demand. I can only guess on the reason for this, maybe it's to try and please everyone, or it's actually a real desire to learn from other people. Personally, I think it's a combination of all things, coming from a bit of youthful insecurity and being relatively 'new' to this whole thing.

There's nothing wrong with that, we're all young people who want something here. But, perhaps, consider that you don't always need to have the answer for everything. If you think you do, stick by your opinion and back it up. If not, maybe it's best to be reserved.

And, at the risk of coming across as trying to be a political influence: perhaps try to let go of the IMT style of bluntly applying rigid, arcane theories to everything in the world, as if it all fits into that neat framework. Theories change and develop for a reason, and it's nothing to be afraid of as long as our principles don't get discarded in favour of opportunism. I realise this will sound hollow, no matter if it's from a "stalinist" or a trotskyist, anarchist or whatever. But the inability to think outside of the box has harmed all those groups.

Sorry for going off-topic.

[LOLseph Stalin]

This Charming Man, that's why i'm here. I want to learn. I just feel helpless sometimes.

[JimmyJazz]

Why is George Galloway a tit?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Because he is a reformist and pretended to be a cat on big brother.

[Charles Xavier]

Regardless if he is a tit or whatever the hell, he is a progressive and he has been refused entry on the sole basis that he is a progressive voice.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Regardless if he is a tit or whatever the hell, he is a progressive and he has been refused entry on the sole basis that he is a progressive voice.

Of course. The Bourgeoisie just love to censor anything that doesn't agree with their viewpoint.

[pastradamus]

Because he is a reformist and pretended to be a cat on big brother.

Oh mother of Jesus tittyfucking christ! I forgot about that! AHAHAHAHA! :laugh:
For all those who didn't see it. Did you ever watch something soooo embarrassing that you not only felt embarrassed for the person in question but felt embarrassed yourself, as if you were the one doing the embarrassing act?
Well friends- thats what watching George Galloway playing a cat on celebrity big brother did to me.

[Pawn Power]

Canada Can't Muzzle Me (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/03/21-3)

[skki]

I suppose this is one of the consequences of praising Saddam Hussein and advocating pumping money into an Anti-Semetic, Fascist organization.

Not that I agree with the banning or anything.

Unless it was on the grounds of his Big Brother performance.

[Charles Xavier]

I suppose this is one of the consequences of praising Saddam Hussein and advocating pumping money into an Anti-Semetic, Fascist organization.

Not that I agree with the banning or anything.

Unless it was on the grounds of his Big Brother performance.

What are you an apologist for the Canadian government's political exclusion of people?

[skki]

What are you an apologist for the Canadian government's political exclusion of people?



Not that I agree with the banning or anything


fin

[Mather]

The soldiers themselves have absolutely no say. Those troops in Afghanistan right now were forced there.

Canada does not have conscription, it's army is a volunteer army so all Canadian soldiers do have the choice of either being at home in Canada or killing people in Afghanistan.

The second they signed up for the army they made their choice perfectly clear, so tough luck if they end up dead on the battlefields of Afghanistan.

No single British, American or Canadian soldier deserves any sympathy whatsoever.

[Holden Caulfield]

No single British, American or Canadian soldier deserves any sympathy whatsoever. yeah anybody poor enough to feel joining the army will improve their living standards (with the free education, pension and other lures) shouldnt have our sympathy. Its their own fault for being wage slaves, all poor people should be sent to the work houses, or left to starve in the streets.

[Iowa656]

The Zionist have taken Canada. And I thought only the USA was that stupid.

[JimmyJazz]

Canada does not have conscription, it's army is a volunteer army so all Canadian soldiers do have the choice of either being at home in Canada or killing people in Afghanistan.

The second they signed up for the army they made their choice perfectly clear, so tough luck if they end up dead on the battlefields of Afghanistan.

No single British, American or Canadian soldier deserves any sympathy whatsoever.

Capitalism doesn't have conscription either, anyone can leave the workforce at any time and stop enriching capitalists. How can you possibly take such a trite and childish analysis?