Revolution In Ireland

[Kato7]

I want to ask people here on their views on how best to start a Revolution in Ireland and what principles it should have to succeed,


Through non violent means, and if so how can this be practiced, what ways can people actually change a country? what can they do?


Armed uprising, I think this is needed in certain places, and at the right time, but what if there is no support for killing, but the support is there for change?


Through a combination of both, If there is no support for violence then you make support for it,


Revolution just happens, it cant be constructed or orgastrated in any way.
Personally i think A, i mean could you actually take a establisment down within its own principles and laws, what if enough people decide i wont pay car tax anymore, what can then actually do to inforce that and laws like it,

Maybe im being unrealistic, but i would just like to hear peoples thoughts on how revolution can be started across the world.

[LeninBalls]

Non violet means? Never! You can never win through votes in a capitalist country and expect to last song (socialists I mean).

I'd love a revolution here too, but really, Ireland won't. No one cares enough.

[Q]

I sense a bit of confusion on what a revolution actually is. I don't blame you, as western propaganda puts a revolution on par with a civil war every chance it gets. A revolution however is quite simply a radical change of the social order, in this case the end of capitalism. How can this then be best achieved?

The only revolutionary group of people that can effectively carry out the revolution and will consistently carry out the tasks of socialism, is the working class. The strength of the working class lies in its sheer universal presense throughout society. Without the working class, society would quite literally grind to a halt.

So, what better way to carry out the revolution then by organising the working class in a collective way as so the question will appear of who controls society? This involves strikes, general strikes, strike committees, workers councils, etc. This serves the purpose of organising the working class politically which in turn creates the situation of dual power. Dual power is a situation in which both the working class and the bourgeoisie are striving for total hegemony over society. If the working class turns out victorious in this most naked class war, the revolution is complete in the sense that the working class has taken power and can start building a socialist future.

This, in a nutshell is the layout of a revolution (albeit quite mechanically represented for the sake of simplicity). I hope it clears up the main point I'm trying to make: revolutions are not about waging a civil war or a guerillia war, but about mass class action.

[Charles Xavier]

The answer is the last one.

You cannot cut and dry a revolution. Different countries will have different means to struggle.

A revolution is not the final battle. The final confrontation is the end point. It is the means to change the rule from one class to the next. And how will we decide this? where the working class is most sufficiently strong.
The revolution is built from years of struggle against the boss class. It is with this struggle the workers learn what works and what doesn't.

[Kato7]

Non violet means? Never! You can never win in a capitalist country and expect to last song (socialists I mean).

I'd love a revolution here too, but really, Ireland won't. No one cares enough.


Maybe my youth makes me Naively optomistic, but i think people here care, there is just no one to lead them, there is no main socialist left party that advocates doing somthing instead there is too many smaller groups and organisations that alone are not strong enough to have any impact,

People need to be inspired to do something and i think now with the economy so bad, it is the time to strike, or the spark will be missed.

i know there is so many different ideologies of socialism but surely more unites us than seperates us,

"They divide, conquer and rule but we can unite, inspire and lead!"

[Kato7]

I sense a bit of confusion on what a revolution actually is. I don't blame you, as western propaganda puts a revolution on par with a civil war every chance it gets. A revolution however is quite simply a radical change of the social order, in this case the end of capitalism. How can this then be best achieved?

The only revolutionary group of people that can effectively carry out the revolution and will consistently carry out the tasks of socialism, is the working class. The strength of the working class lies in its sheer universal presense throughout society. Without the working class, society would quite literally grind to a halt.

So, what better way to carry out the revolution then by organising the working class in a collective way as so the question will appear of who controls society? This involves strikes, general strikes, strike committees, workers councils, etc. This serves the purpose of organising the working class politically which in turn creates the situation of dual power. Dual power is a situation in which both the working class and the bourgeoisie are striving for total hegemony over society. If the working class turns out victorious in this most naked class war, the revolution is complete in the sense that the working class has taken power and can start building a socialist future.

This, in a nutshell is the layout of a revolution (albeit quite mechanically represented for the sake of simplicity). I hope it clears up the main point I'm trying to make: revolutions are not about waging a civil war or a guerillia war, but about mass class action.


I agree with what you are saying, alot of people associate revolution with guerilla warfare, we know thats not true, im just puting it out there to see ways in which might be successful

Workers strikes and workers unions, or such a oppurtunity that is missed i think, because they have so much power in society that as you say things would grind to a halt, but it is getting the ordinary people in a collective way to use that power to organise strikes,

How can this be done?

[Kato7]

The answer is the last one.

You cannot cut and dry a revolution. Different countries will have different means to struggle.

A revolution is not the final battle. The final confrontation is the end point. It is the means to change the rule from one class to the next. And how will we decide this? where the working class is most sufficiently strong.
The revolution is built from years of struggle against the boss class. It is with this struggle the workers learn what works and what doesn't.


Every country of course is different, in the way in which a revolution is best suited,

but surley there must be action from sumwhere to help start it, ? Even if it is only in a small form,

i mean if you wait years to learn what works and what doesnt, then by that time you figure that out the working class will have got older and by then the current workers will have not experienced what works and what doesnt and you will be back to the start again,

Yes one person cant make a revoulution happen, but people together can.

People must act or oppurtunities will be missed that will not come along for sometime.

[pastradamus]

Though I will argue that this Island has been waring on for a long long long time now that things can be done democratically and peacefully. However I love seeing Unions motivate things and if they (Useless unions like SIPTU & MANDATE ) actually had their workers interests at heart they would adopt a machievellian "by any means nessecary" attitude. This would include blocking roads,bridges and activist behaviours - but this is unlikely to happen and unlike big Jim Larkins Ideals the Modern large unions work WITH the government as opposed to working against it.

[brigadista]

define Ireland ?

[Coggeh]

define ireland ?
Not this shit again :p

I think the question is quite confusing . Their are many ways to organise a revolution without violence , but this isn't pacifism . By tactically organising around the working class and unions we can demand militant action by workers against cuts etc . This doesn't mean everyone has an AK47 but nor does it mean its pacifist .

In Ireland the left is growing and the bureaucracy in the unions are constantly under pressure from a growing concious section of the working class . Its going to come to a point where the bureaucracy can not longer bullshit their way out with action . Its up to revolutionary organisations to show workers that this so call "action" (the 1 day protest at the end of March for example) is not enough . It will take radical militant action by workers to make real differences and ultimately lead in a mass workers party to take power of the bourgeois state .

This in my opinion is the most practical and tactically best way to organise a revolution in Ireland .

[LeninBalls]

(the 1 day protest at the end of March for example)

Is there any confirmation on this? :p I've heard all my teachers talking about it, hoping it's true. :D

[joejoe]

Is there any confirmation on this? :p I've heard all my teachers talking about it, hoping it's true. :D

there is something on the socialist workers party website about it.
they want a protest on march 30th

[Coggeh]

Its confirmed , its a general strike . Jesus guys google news it :p