Are the Guardian Angels a completely reactionary organization?

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I saw in the newspaper that some people in a neighboring city are trying to organize "Guardian Angel Safety Patrols." What do you know about them? Do they just encourage the police state atmosphere or can "citizen groups" be effective against things like police misconduct and brutality?

[mikelepore]

I don't know of any cases when they have been helpful in preventing police misconduct. What they mainly do is put pressure on gangs, bullies, muggers, pickpockets, etc. They push them around and tell them to get off the street or the subway train.

Perhaps my info is out of date because all I know about them is from the activities of Curtis Sliwa and Lisa Sliwa in the 1980s.

[Bitter Ashes]

Hmmm. A community that feels empowered. Intresting.

[Blackscare]

Not knowing much about their politics, if they have any besides the need for safer communities, I'd say they're a good thing because they try to curtail gang violence and the like.

Maybe there are instances of bad things going on, I don't know, but I like the concept of the group, not as a method of strengthening the police state, but because they show that it is at least possible for the local community to maintain it's own safety. Even though they basically just call the police now, they show potential for influencing the basic philosophy/structure behind anarchist community protection in the future.

[AvanteRedGarde]

They're pigs. It's not about community empowerment, its about a few law-and-order crackers doing the work for the state.

[Invincible Summer]

They're pigs. It's not about community empowerment, its about a few law-and-order crackers doing the work for the state.


But in a communist society (or at least the one I and probably other Anarchists envision), community security will most likely take this form of rotating citizen watch groups.

What do you have to say about that?

[AvanteRedGarde]

In a capitalist society they would be largely defending the interests of capitalists; in a socialistic one, they would be charged with protecting the interests of the people.

How's that so hard to understand?

[Sasha]

not to mention these are religious dickheads with an moralistic christian agenda, they have more in common with the morale police in theran and soudiarabia etc than with citicens patrols in a anarchist/communist society.

[Invincible Summer]

In a capitalist society they would be largely defending the interests of capitalists; in a socialistic one, they would be charged with protecting the interests of the people.

How's that so hard to understand?


You just seem to be looking at it from a very black-and-white perspective... as if you're saying that they're either fully reactionary or not, but they cannot be "not" because they exist in capitalist society.

I haven't read up on this organization specifically, but I'm talking about citizen patrols in general - it can be a "progressive" move

[rednordman]

Although I come from the UK, I have by some coincidence heard about these people. To put it in a nutshell, they are simply wannabe 'hardmen' who hide behind the guise of 'high morals'. From the outside they simply look like there trying to attain somekind of authority, and in all honesty, trying too hard to attract the opposite sex. I say this because they always talk about 'patroling the streets for a safer society', etc like there tough on the outside but soft on the inside:rolleyes:. Also after reading their wiki profile the come across as wanting the exposure and attention. Whereas if they where genuine, they would not need this.
Ok though, the idea is not a bad one and could be implimented into a socialist society, but in this case all they seem to be really doing is attempting to act parallel with the existing police forces (who knows what they make of them?), and we all know who are imfamous for doing that in history, dont we. They even wear berets.
Mabey Im being harsh but i sense there is something uber-reactionary about them.

[AvanteRedGarde]

Well 'destruction,' that's the difference between communism and liberalism.

[Invincible Summer]

Well 'destruction,' that's the difference between communism and liberalism.

What? That communists have to hate everything that exists in capitalist society, not just capitalism itself? I'm not a reformist, but that's not to say that everything vaguely related to reform is a terrible thing. Are you one of those guys that thinks we should leave society to rot so that the working class can "achieve class consciousness?"

Now I understand that this Guardian Angel organization may not be the best example of citizen patrolling, but to wholly discredit the idea of citizen patrols simply because it currently operates in capitalist society, and neglect to see its potential is absurd and willfully stubborn.



And it's "destructicon" thank you very much.

[The Idler]

In terms of defining such organizations by strategy, then I'd suggest "paramilitaries" use armed (uniformed) attack (or are involved in some sort of armed offensive role). "Militia", I'd probably say are more defensive but nevertheless armed and uniformed.

From what little I know of the Guardian Angels, they seem to be merely uniformed and neither an attacking paramilitary force nor even an armed militia defense force.

The next question is whether their purpose or cause is reactionary or progressive?

I often find it helpful use the three distinctions when discussing crime; crimes against the state, crimes against property and crimes against people.

Merely defending the state or property interests can be reactionary. Defending other people on the other hand seems to be a progressive role.

As for the claim they are "doing the work of the state", this may be contradictory, the job of the police is to have a state monopoly of force under the pretense of fighting crime. Without the state monopoly on fighting crime, the state police force lose their justification. Interestingly the history of the police force in England is one of citizens fighting crime until the state took over, but not without widespread resistance and the concession that police officers would be given no more special powers or rights than ordinary citizens.

[AvanteRedGarde]

What? That communists have to hate everything that exists in capitalist society, not just capitalism itself? I'm not a reformist, but that's not to say that everything vaguely related to reform is a terrible thing. Are you one of those guys that thinks we should leave society to rot so that the working class can "achieve class consciousness?"

Now I understand that this Guardian Angel organization may not be the best example of citizen patrolling, but to wholly discredit the idea of citizen patrols simply because it currently operates in capitalist society, and neglect to see its potential is absurd and willfully stubborn.

And it's "destructicon" thank you very much.

You didn't ask about citizen patrols, you asked about the Guardian Angles specifically- whether they were reactionary or not. I answered you. Moreover, the history of "citizen patrols" in America isn't pretty. The KKK comes to mind. They acted outside the authority of the federal state. Were they progressive??

[StalinFanboy]

These guys are a joke. They march around looking all official and shit, and then when shit hits the fan they call the pigs. lulz community empowerment.