An idea for a political weapon.

[Dr Mindbender]

The premise of this thread is going to sound slightly absurd at first, but hear me out.

In films & literature, i started a thread on a recent documentary on british tv recently called ''hammer & tickle''. The theme of the show argued that the fall of communist resolve in the east, was in no small part thanks to the anti-communist joketellers who ridiculed the credibility of the existing establishment.

Perhaps it is time we utilised this propagandative weapon ourselves, i'm sure in this recession era it is fertile ground for laughing at the idiocy of the bankers and capitalists.

I say that the creative thinkers and progressive humourists among us need to be more actively using this as a political ju jutsu against our current system.

[MarxSchmarx]

Some of this already exists to some degree. THe American comic strip Dilbert is a step in the right direction; the trick is to make it much more radical.

Part of the success of jokes in the eastern block, though, was their seriously subversive nature. In many respects, in societies without free speech, people pay closer attention to political ideas. So I remain a little skeptical how well this could work in the developed world more generally.

Still, there's no harm in trying and I think a sense of humor is sorely lacking in the movement in any event.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Anti-Capitalist videos? I can live with that. :lol: I think it would be fun if it was to be done in a humourous light-hearted way.

[Q]

The premise of this thread is going to sound slightly absurd at first, but hear me out.

In films & literature, i started a thread on a recent documentary on british tv recently called ''hammer & tickle''. The theme of the show argued that the fall of communist resolve in the east, was in no small part thanks to the anti-communist joketellers who ridiculed the credibility of the existing establishment.

Perhaps it is time we utilised this propagandative weapon ourselves, i'm sure in this recession era it is fertile ground for laughing at the idiocy of the bankers and capitalists.

I say that the creative thinkers and progressive humourists among us need to be more actively using this as a political ju jutsu against our current system.

Fighting capitalism with telling jokes? That idea is, as you said it, slightly absurd indeed.

[Dr Mindbender]

Fighting capitalism with telling jokes? That idea is, as you said it, slightly absurd indeed.

But why? Arguably it helped bring down stalinism in the east.

If communism indeed occupies the ideological high ground as we have convinced ourselves, then surely lampooning capitalism to an equivalent degree is an acheivable objective.

[Killfacer]

I guess if it contributes towards making it seem as ridiculous as it clearly is, then it's a good idea.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Fighting capitalism with telling jokes? That idea is, as you said it, slightly absurd indeed.

Capitalists tell jokes about us so we're going to tell jokes about them. :p

[mykittyhasaboner]

Jon Stewart and Colbert make fun of the capitalist extremists a lot, but ultimately do not attribute the faults of capitalism to a systematic failure. They're still funny.

Those two aren't funny, and they do not have any anti-capitalist sense of humor. Colbert is a deranged anti-communist, I don't see how he is in any way funny; and Stewart is some kind of liberal. So I don't see the point in saying they don't attribute any of capitalism's faults, when they aren't anti-capitalists.


As for the original topic, I have to say I don't follow through with it much. On the surface, it sounds like a fairly good idea; but I digress. People need a sharp break from the antics they are used to, the government is made fun of a lot and its not a new fad. In fact, I'd say its just serving the ruling class interests if we have people telling jokes about serious life-threatening issues like war, recession etc. There are entire programs on television devoted to making fun of political figures like "Lil bush" or Colbert and Stewart's crap, and it all is just for shit's and giggles, and never challenges any issues or perspectives; because thats what jokes are to most people. I would really doubt the effectiveness of joke telling described "Hammer and tickle", jokes are no match for guns, or in the SU's case, rotten leadership. If we want to really reach people into thinking about alternative systems to capitalism, we need a serious, sober approach to propaganda.

[Q]

Capitalists tell jokes about us so we're going to tell jokes about them. :p

Well yeah, make all the jokes you want. But using it as a "political weapon" is absurd. I also find the notion that jokes made the USSR collapse (or at least helped in it) ridiculous. I mean, if that's a joke, it's a really bad one.

[Dr Mindbender]

Well yeah, make all the jokes you want. But using it as a "political weapon" is absurd. I also find the notion that jokes made the USSR collapse (or at least helped in it) ridiculous. I mean, if that's a joke, it's a really bad one.

if you ever get a chance, watch the documentary 'hammer and tickle'. It explains better than i can.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Well yeah, make all the jokes you want. But using it as a "political weapon" is absurd. I also find the notion that jokes made the USSR collapse (or at least helped in it) ridiculous. I mean, if that's a joke, it's a really bad one.

I don't think it should be used as a "political weapon", but it's still a fun thing we could do. Commies deserve to have fun too. :(


Stalinists hate humor http://www.revleft.com/vb/idea-political-weapon-p1389652/revleft/smilies/wink.gif

I think they purged it.

[YSR]

Lots of early twentieth century U.S. socialist publications were full of humor. I don't remember the name of it anymore, but there was actually a weekly humor periodical that was made up of a bunch of cartoonists and humorists affiliated with the Masses (I think.) I work in a library and read through most of the run (a couple of years before and after WWI). Despite the dated nature of most of the humor and the periodically racist/sexist portrayals that were common, however not excusable, for the time, it was actually quite funny.

The early IWW often used cartoons, jokes, or songs as ways to make fun of capitalists. If you actually listen to the lyrics of Preacher and the Slave or other Joe Hill songs, they're quite funny.

[Forward Union]

The premise of this thread is going to sound slightly absurd at first, but hear me out.

In films & literature, i started a thread on a recent documentary on british tv recently called ''hammer & tickle''. The theme of the show argued that the fall of communist resolve in the east, was in no small part thanks to the anti-communist joketellers who ridiculed the credibility of the existing establishment.

Perhaps it is time we utilised this propagandative weapon ourselves, i'm sure in this recession era it is fertile ground for laughing at the idiocy of the bankers and capitalists.

I say that the creative thinkers and progressive humourists among us need to be more actively using this as a political ju jutsu against our current system.

Id rather unionise the rail, transport, and energy production.

But ok.

[ckaihatsu]

So I don't see the point in saying they don't attribute any of capitalism's faults, when they aren't anti-capitalists.





In fact, I'd say its just serving the ruling class interests if we have people telling jokes about serious life-threatening issues like war, recession etc. There are entire programs on television devoted to making fun of political figures like "Lil bush" or Colbert and Stewart's crap, and it all is just for shit's and giggles, and never challenges any issues or perspectives; because thats what jokes are to most people.





If we want to really reach people into thinking about alternative systems to capitalism, we need a serious, sober approach to propaganda.


Yup, this sums it up. I can offer a few pointers:

- The essence of comedy is introducing unexpected strangeness, or drama, where one wasn't expecting it. A good example of this is farce, where the regular noble-ness of a situation is suddenly undermined, exposing some flaw in the noble-ness of it.

- We know that capitalism, as a whole, is basically a big pyramid scheme, or Ponzi scheme, where the manufacture of goods and services is secondary to the revolving-door of finance and financial returns. As long as the door keeps spinning and returns can be had then no asks questions about the whys or hows -- money is relatively anonymous after all....

A jokey-kind of thought that occurred to me as a result of Madoff being put on the hot seat is that -- until he came under investigation -- Madoff incurred * professional jealousy * from all other capitalists because they all *wished* they could do what he did, for so long. Madoff, by forging financial reports and just doing a revolving-door Ponzi scheme of pure cash, was practicing the purest form of business there is -- he managed to avoid dealing with goods and services entirely -- even *financial ones*, and just concentrated on cashflows over time. As long as he could attract investment and provide the revolving-door returns he stayed one step ahead of the game, through time. Even whistleblowers along the way were ignored by the SEC -- how bad-ass is that?!

But as soon as the overall economic expansion started to slow the new investment money wasn't coming in anymore, and time came to a crashing halt -- then he couldn't provide turnaround returns anymore and it all came crashing down, as the world capitalist economy is, as a whole.

So.... In terms of comedy, we would just need to keep this Ponzi-scheme nature of capitalism in mind when we lampoon it. Jokes often use a noble-ness-oriented setup, and then suddenly flip the tables on that nobility -- the old pie-in-the-face-of-the-gentleman kind of gag....


Chris




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[Dr Mindbender]

Id rather unionise the rail, transport, and energy production.

But ok.

..but in the interim how do we acheive that?

It may have escaped your attention, but there isnt massive support to do the above because A) people are still hopelessly positive about capitalism and B) they have been educated from school that socialism is wrong.

[Blackscare]

Those two aren't funny, and they do not have any anti-capitalist sense of humor. Colbert is a deranged anti-communist, I don't see how he is in any way funny;


Colbert is the most obvious Bill O'rielly parody ever. I mean, he started as a "reporter" for the daily show! It doesn't make him a communist, sure, but I can't believe people actually take his shtick seriously :confused:

[Poison]

People respond more to ridicule or social pressure than they ever would to reason.

[mykittyhasaboner]

People respond more to ridicule or social pressure than they ever would to reason.
Perhaps, but revolutionary theory and the very serious and hazardous act of carrying out revolution needs a hell of a lot more than ridicule or humor behind it.

[Poison]

Perhaps, but revolutionary theory and the very serious and hazardous act of carrying out revolution needs a hell of a lot more than ridicule or humor behind it.

Of course, I agree completely. But you can't reach most people through heavy theory.

[ckaihatsu]

People respond more to ridicule or social pressure than they ever would to reason.


---





The emotions of man are stirred more quickly than man's intelligence [...] it is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is to have sympathy with thought.

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/slman10.txt

[Red_Storm]

Even in the October revolution there were propaganda pics making joke about capitalism ( if we can say that about russia in that period), it had a big impact on the population, Today we have the internet and the mass media. The best weapon in politics is the Satyrics, and the comics. I propose founding a blog, ( if allready one is not exsistent) and putting all the jokes that can be collected there.:)