Sell Outs

[I Bow 4 Che]

I get in arguments all the time with people about which bands have sold out and which havn't. And how exactly do you KNOW if a band sold out or not? I would like to hear your comments on that. There are a couple Im pretty confident could be considered sell outs.

Blink 182
No Doubt (they have a new song called-"hella cool" WTF)
Linkn Park
and then theres ones that have always sold out
Slipknot
Limp Bizket
Sum 41
American Hi Fi

ok well theres more but i can tell Ill get flamed on this post, so instead of flaming me just explain to me which of the above bands would not be considered a sell out, and why.

[Hayduke]

Linking Park and Limp Bizkit are the only one I really can say sell out

[libereco]

well.....i know all of those except for American Hi-Fi.

I'd say pretty much all of them never sold out, because they never where in a position to. If those bands ever had any credibility then you would have to call them sellouts, but they never did.

No Doubt is the only one i used to listen to from time to time...they had some nice pop-ska...but their new album is pretty disgusting. I still wouldn't call them sell outs...

Now if all of a sudden refused would have started to produce blink 182 type music......then that would be a sell out.

[Rob]

I'd say all the previously mentioned bands, but also Green Day and Metallica

[Anne]

I don't think that Blink 182 was ever actually in the postition to sell out. Sum41, however, put out an excellent album before becoming mainstream, and since then, I believe have sold out. No Doubt confuses me....I really don't understand where all this "rap" is suddenly coming from....I don't really know if its selling out or what, I really just don't listen to it anymore.

[munkey soup]

I don't think Slipknot is a Sell-out. I don't have anything to back me up, but they just seem like they don't give a shit. But they aren't that talented, they're just a poor copy of Static-X. Static-X is the best heavy metal band on the scene, I've seen them twice in concert and they are far beyond any hard rockin band out there.

[El Brujo]

Slipknot and Linkin Park havent sold out. Limp Bizkit has definitely, so has blink 182 (I never really liked them though, way too poppy). How come nobody has mentioned SUGAR RAY yet? They are the worse case of sellouts ever.

[Derar]

The black list of Sell outs ( Only bands That r REALLY REALLY gone sellouts ...... big time ) :

1. Marylin manson
2. Cradle of Filth
3. Slipknot
4. Linkin Park , Limp Bizkit , Papa roach ......and other similiar bands ..... ( these r all in the same category making some really crappy metal songs consisting of 2 chords the whole song , and maybe one extra chord for the chorus !!! )
5. Offspring

[Anne]

Oh! I forgot about The Offspring!! Very much sell outs!! I mean Rancid and The Offspring were once both in the same situation being offered record deals with Sony coming off small time record lables....The Offsping took it, Rancid didn't. I have no respect for The Offspring.

[Sasafrás]

I actually kinda like No Doubt still.. However, The Offspring, Green Day, and Sugar Ray, hmmm... I don't dig the first 2 that much, but Sugar Ray is still almost safe, in my opinion. I see their music as "have fun & feel good" type of stuff. And, how can we say that Linkin Park has "sold out" when they've only got, like, one album out anyway? Give 'em a chance! I actually think they've got a pretty nice sound.
Maybe I'm really liberal when it comes to music...

[I Will Deny You]

It seems to me that by "sell out" you mean signing with a major record label or going on Mtv. Well, if those are your standards, I quite frankly don't give a fuck. We ought to care about the music and only the music, so if a band signs on a major label and their music is twice as good as it was before we shouldn't care. Anything to make the music better should be a good thing. I've got a friend who's really into music and we've talked about this before, since many people her age use the term sell out all the time. There are a ton of bands who sign to major labels and really suck because the major labels' producers pressure bands into making music that's easier to market. But there are a few bands who hook up with producers that are the best of the best and their music improves tenfold. So I say, fuck what the name of their latest single is, fuck what label they're on, and only listen to the music because that's all that matters. I'm not ashamed to say that I listen to Nirvana and I don't care how many times Rolling Stone does an issue devoted to them and I don't care how many VH1 specials about them there are and I don't care how many Dave Grohl singles suck, because they were good.

PS - I like the Fugees and Hill and Nas and Jean, and I even like Alicia Keys because she's got a great voice and her music sounds wonderful, and I think Angie Stone's incredible. I might even watch the super-evil Grammys if one of them was going to perform. And hasn't Janet Jackson had a few good singles?

[Derar]

Sell outs r bands that change their music to worse , to something thats very popular just to get fame and CASH !! its all about the money ..........

or just start stupid music that's so popular and not original at all just to get cash ....... something like limp bizkit , papa roach and linkin park ....... they r all the same !!

bands that changed their style , blink 182 and sugar ray and offspring....... blink 182 were hardcore punk , now they r some poppy bullshit ! same thing with offspring .

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 1:23 pm on Feb. 19, 2002
PS - I like the Fugees and Hill and Nas and Jean, and I even like Alicia Keys because she's got a great voice and her music sounds wonderful, and I think Angie Stone's incredible. I might even watch the super-evil Grammys if one of them was going to perform. And hasn't Janet Jackson had a few good singles?
You know, I love the Fugees and Hill. Jean is cool and so is Nas. I had a fan site dedicated to Alicia Keys and it was quite popular but I had to shut it down when I met my space limit and I really didn't have the time to maintain it anymore. I think she has a beautiful voice and good piano skills as well.. Angie Stone is indeed incredible! And, Janet Jackson is a legend..
Back in the day, I loved Nirvana because my brother listened to them and I idolized my big brother. He has a really broad musical taste and if it weren't for him, my musical taste would be really shallow. How do you guys feel about... Weezer?

[munkey soup]

I was wondering, why do you all not like Linkin Park? And as for calling them the same as Limp Bizkit, have you actually listened to a Bizkit album and compared it to Linkin Parks album? They are totally different, Linkin Park is much better than Bizkit. I think you should start toking up a little more often Derar, because many of your posts as of late, have been getting more and more closed minded.
I have a feeling most of the people who call bands "sell outs" are mad because these bands have become popular, so they don't feel that closeness to the band anymore, and they no longer feel like they can call that band their own. Yes, it is true that a band's music usually becomes more formulaic when they sign with a big label, but when this happens, just don't listen to them anymore. And who gives a shit what other people listen to?

[I Will Deny You]

I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't like Linkin Park because, in my opinion, they try so much to be a "hard rock" band that they sacrifice the quality of their music, especially the singer. Think about it: there's a reason why we don't just read script and screenplays, why we go out to see plays and movies. It's that when an actor performs, they lend more to their character than what we can deduce from the script. They complete their characters and add more levels, layers and emotions.

Well, it's the same with music. If I wanted to, I could read the lyrics to a song. And plenty of people more involved with music theory than I am could read the sheet music to Linkin Park's latest single. But we're not supposed to want to do that, and you know why? We're supposed to want to listen to the actual music. If you get two really good musicians who are also really different (just for fun, let's say Kenny G and Keith Richards) and give them the same piece of music, one might see anger and add heartbreak in their performance, another might see anger and add disappointment. But Linkin Park, with the singer and the others, doesn't add anything when they play a song. It's all "I'm an angry WASP blah-blah-blah." They're not musicians and they're certainly not artists, they're hacks. They've got no emotion and no feeling.

That's the thing about Alicia Keys. (I'll just use her as an example because she's Shayla's favorite.) She doesn't scream like my mother telling me to get inside for dinner. (Because there's nothing musical about that!) Her voice goes up and down and you can almost tell what she's thinking when it gets softer or louder. The same can be said for the piano and the backing instruments: When a new instrument is added, or played a different way, the whole dynamic of the song is changed. Everything's in a balance. (Now can we say that about Linkin Park? Every instrument is played to say "I'm angry because my mom won't let me borrow the car for the weekend!" and it's hard to tell how many instruments there are.)

I'm not one of those people who can only listen to R&B--I like a lot of that big-label grunge, and some friends of mine have found some indie hard rock that's pretty good. I'm also being dragged to the Static-X/Soulfly show this weekend because four of my friends are complete assholes, but I haven't hurt them (badly) yet because that's how much I like hard rock! (Is a single word of this post readable? I'm going stir-crazy from being inside my tiny apartment for so long.)

Ahem, yes. That's why I don't like Linkin Park. I'm not my grandmother, ranting on and on about how it's bad to be angry, but I am a music fan and I want to listen to artists who can justify their anger or make me understand their anger.

[munkey soup]

Thank you for explaining your stance, I Will Deny You, your argument is a good one. It is true that their lyrics are a bit sophmorish. But I will not lie, I enjoy listening to them. Different tastes for different people, correct?
As for the Static-X/Soulfly show, I went to that a couple of weeks ago, and I loved it. Especially Soulfly, they are a great band(and I love their song Tribes). Unfortunately my friend was kicked out before Static-X was finished with their set, but luckily they played most of their better songs right off the bat.

[I Bow 4 Che]

I completly agree with you Lindsay, but selling out to me would not be about publicity unless the public urged them to change their music into a style that was not preformed previously. Do you realize that blink182, after comign out with "Whats my age again" almost ALL of their songs sound exactly the same and have the exact same chourds. Yesterday I was listening to Kroq (an LA and Orange County rock radio station) and a blink 182 song came on and I started singing along with the same tune and my brother says "Oh youve heared this song before?" and I said "No its just so fucking predictable how could you not know whats coming next?" anyway, to prove my point in a way

here's a little something off the "Blink 182 The Tom, Mark, & Traveis Show", this is track 4 on the cd.
"shit, piss, fuck, ****, cock sucker, mother fucker, tit's, fart, dirty twat"

repeat 4 times, then

"I fucked your mom"

what a great song.


ok how's this one from blink, it's track 8
"It would be nice to have a blowjob"

repeat 7 times, then end on

"It would be ncie to have a blowjob from your mom"

another instant classic

[Zippy]

"As soon as you sign a record contract, you have commited the act of selling out."
- James Dean Bradfield
- Manic Street Preachers

Zippy.

[Derar]

Quote: from munkey soup on 11:01 pm on Feb. 19, 2002
I think you should start toking up a little more often Derar, because many of your posts as of late, have been getting more and more closed minded.


Are u talking me being closed minded music wise , or in general ?
if music wise ....... haha man u r soo wrong .......
i just think these bands suck ...... and thats my opinion cant tell me im closed minded coz i expressed my opinion .......

plus i've got a really broad musical taste ...... apart from heavy metal , im a big jazz fan ......i like thelonious monk, mike stern anyone ? ..... i even started a jazz/rock project with some friends ..... but didnt work out ........... jazz needs high skills , im also into music from the 70's and 80's like the doors , hendrix , nick cave and the bad seeds , duran duran , pink floyd , led zeppling , the cure and many other bands ........... i also sometimes listen to the traditional arabic music ......
im also into punk , i was a big rancid fan ...... but didnt listen to them in a long time ......
im also an orchestra fan ....... been to couple of orchstra shows around ... and enjoyed them a lot, who likes Kitaro ?
i like opera as well ...... more like the new age opera .....
i like blues ...... i like bb king ...... his 90's stuff r really nice .......
actually i like anything thats nice music wise , and monkey soup ...... when u really get into music and start playing an instrument ..... u'll know why these bands like linkin park arent talented at all !

[I Will Deny You]

Derar, do you mean going to jazz shows or listening to CDs? I love to go to jazz shows, it's not my favorite type of music but there's nothing better than live jazz. Those guys are such amazing musicians and the energy is incredible . . . but jazz on vinyl never did much for me. I Bow 4 Che, that's what you get for listening to the radio instead of going to live shows! You're only 11 though, so I guess you don't have much of a choice, but in a few years you'll be going to live shows and your world will be a better place, trust me. I agree completely though, Blink 182 sucks (for whatever reason). And Munkey, Soulfly's really not that great (I liked them better before, when they were Sepultura) but they don't completely suck and they're so unique and, dare I say, cool, that if I get stoned and listen to them I'll be a happy camper.

And Zippy, who the fuck were you quoting?

[Zippy]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 5:06 pm on Feb. 20, 2002
And Zippy, who the fuck were you quoting?
A Welsh Marxist band, quite big in Britain, the Manic Street Preachers :

http://uk.sonymusic.co.uk/manics/band/photos/08.jpg

Zippy. :)

[Young Turk]

I think I'd like to clarify what selling out means to me, though it's not a term I often use.

Selling out means taking something that originally was self justified and respected for what it was, then capitalizing on it greedily devalueing the original purpose and meaning.

Shitty bands like Creed are not sell outs, they had nothing to sell out from, their sound was made for the mass market from the get-go. It's not like Creed was playing in some run down rathole for 10 years before a label picked them up, they would never make it in any underground scene.

On the other hand RATM is a sell-out band, I don't know about their pre-fame days, but the mere fact that they act anti-capitalist and then charge the same price for their album as britney spears does is absurd. Bands do have control over this and I would even say that I can understand signing with a major label to get their messages to a wider audience, but making the consumer pay the standard label price? how ironic can you get. they help fuel the industry, rebellion in a nice little package for all the all-american non-political mass media consumers to buy. No politicians are worried about RATM's political messages because they are owned by the mass media and are corporate as shit themselves (and boring, I would add of topic). If one claims to be progressive, working for MTV devalidates whatever it is one may be trying to prove since MTV is THE head of the capitalist media machine. And no, climbing up on that statue during the MTV music awards does not make up for anything. MTV later aired that segment many times in order to capitalize on people interest in it. Either way they make money. and it takes a lot more than the average RATM fan seeing them on MTV to get them off the couch, rather, if they are impressed, statistics show that they are just likely to watch more TV.

A lot of progressive thinkers post on this site however I think we lose sight of how far off the average American is from giving a shit about anything political.

[El Commandante]

Zippy, here is a fellow fan of the manics. Another one of Blinks famous songs, "I want to fuck a dog in the ass", what a classic sell out song that was. Blink are even more crap then they used to be, they've gone all pop and sound rubbish now.

[Sasafrás]

Well, I wouldn't consider the fact that Blink's made their lyrics complete garbage a reason for them to be sell-outs. That's just idiotic. I don't listen to them, but what kind of song is "I want to fuck a dog in the ass"? That's ridiculous. I'm not good at writing lyrics and such, but if that's all it takes, then I surely could be a star.

And, silly lyrics don't always make a crappy band. May I remind you all of At the Drive-In? They were a really good band (in my opinion) but their lyrics really didn't make much sense. Does anyone else know of them or like them?

And, nobody has commented on Weezer yet...

[Derar]

i will deny u , i like jazz shows they kick ass ...... but i also got lots of cds ..... as i said my favourite artist is Mike stern ....... i also have lots of respect to thelonious monk ...... he is one of the greatest .

and ohh yeah ....... listening to jazz while stoned ! THATS WHAT I CALL HEAVEN ......... the best high ever

how about the doors while u r stoned ?

" You know that it would be untrue

You know that I would be a liar

If I was to say to you

Girl, we couldn't get much higher

Come on baby, light my fire

Come on baby, light my fire "

[Young Turk]

weezer, in my opinion is a band that knows how to write a solid tune (or maybe it's just Rivers writing them) however their style has not developed and they seem to be getting less and less progressive on each album. I like some of the classic tracks of the blue album but as a musician (and before i was), I can't help it, their songs have a very "blocky" boring sound. It would be nice if they took a few risks, I bet there is more interesting stuff than on the newest album floating around in their heads. If not, that's kind of depressing.

[El Brujo]

I absolutely LOATHE Blink 182. Especially "All the small things", they used to play that fucking song like 50 times a day on the radio. I rarely listen to the radio anymore because i got tired of the whole alternative thing and got into more underground generes such as death metal, industrial, hardcore, reggae, trance, etc. I also got more into hip-hop but Im really not into the whole mainstream R&B-ish hip-hop that they play in stations around here so Im not attracted to the local hip-hop stations.

[I Will Deny You]

Having stupid lyrics doesn't make someone a sell-out . . . in my humble opinion, there's never been anyone quite as brilliant as Wesley Willis. But I agree, Blink 182 definitely sucks. When a band has stupid lyrics and goes around singing like they're the funniest thing since Eddie Murphy dressed up as Gumby (was that a different thread?) that kind of sucks, but when they sing dumb songs and just leave it at that, and don't try to be sexy while making fun of their fellow sexy folk or attempting to make hee-larious videos, then it can be great.

In other words, stupid with a wink, not stupid with a fart.

[psycho chicken]

the last "good" blink song was dammit. every thing after that is utter crap

green day went downhill when they released nimrod
the offspring, well pretty fly says it all

[Anonymous]

I think every single MTV,radio band is a sell out if your looking at a sell out as a contract with a record company, what else are they going to do play out of there garage. If you want to be heard in todays music industry you have to get a label.
Thank You.

[ernestodekam]

Gee, I havn't been here for a while!

Well now that I am back, I might aswell say something useful.

I think the whole RATM issue about whether they are sell outs or not is complicated. They believe they are sort of using the system and exploiting it b selling their records through it. I am not sure.

System of a down have become a sell out band now. Their two albums arn't sell outs, but their next one will be, 4 sure.

[I Bow 4 Che]

WHAT! Soad's next album wont sell out, what do you mean "4 sure" nothings ever "for sure", I just want to know why you think so thats all, im not really insulting you.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from ernestodekam on 6:07 am on Feb. 23, 2002
They believe they are sort of using the system and exploiting it b selling their records through itSorry to all Rage fans but I really don't think they're using the system against itself. I'm not sure about you all, but when I was 12 I didn't buy a record to learn about world affairs. I've probably met two people in my whole life who were turned on to politics by Rage, and they weren't the smartest people I've ever met.

[psycho chicken]

i don't believe rage were sell outs, i wouldn't have personally gone down that road, but it's worked for them and they got their message out to alot of people.
my political views weren't shaped solely by rage, but i found out alot of things from researching further into things they mention
and anyway, don't buy ratm cd's. copy them. that's what rage have said all allong