Black Music and White Music

[I Will Deny You]

Here's something I've noticed, and it's really starting to piss me off. I'm no fan of Vanilla Ice or Eminem (I can't stand them, to be honest) but I don't think that they should be called posers because they're white guys in a genre that's mostly black. Yes, they are posers. Vanilla Ice is a poser because he tried to pass himself off as tough after buying a mansion. Eminem is a poser because he's saying he's ghetto but he appears on TRL all the time. Are they wannabes? Sure, but not because of the color of their skin.

And then you've got local (from where I'm sitting) legends Bad Brains. I think they're pretty good, but punk's never been my thing. But what people say about them is, wow! they've opened punk up for black people. No one says they're posers trying to be white, everyone says they're practically civil rights heroes of the 80's.

Isn't this sending the wrong message? "Black people in white territory are role models, white white people in black territory should go back where they came from." I can understand it a little, but it makes me uncomfortable.

[Sasafrás]

Yeah, Lindsay, I'm feelin' ya, yo! Um.. sorry

It is pretty disturbing to know that when whites are, I guess, deeply influenced by or even fascinated by elements of African-American (or black, if you will) culture, such as by music like hip-hop, rap, R&B, soul or by fashion FUBU (Which my friend now calls "FUBT": For Us, By Them), Eckô (designed by a white guy, anyway), etc., those whites are "posers" or "wiggers" even. On the other hand, blacks who get into (or become famous for) things like rock, punk, and other things that most would call parts of "white" culture (though, I'm still convinced that rock is not really a white thing), those blacks are doing a good thing or at least, not doing anything wrong. But, I've still taken note of the fact that often, when blacks dig "white lifestyle" (or whatever) and what not, they are sometimes called "Uncle Tom" by their African-American counterparts. That's really annoying.

I'll admit it, I like a couple Eminem songs and I still listen to (and laugh at) Vanilla Ice, but I wouldn't call them posers simply because they're white either. But, for your reasons, Lindsay, yes, I would. I think it's really funny how Eminem said once that he'll never say the n-word. I know white boys (and Asians as well) at my school who can say the n-word and not get "decked in the grill" (punched) because, I suppose, they've gained a certain status with the black kids, you know? Do you think Em has reached that "status" with members of the black community? I think it's ridiculous either way..

[Derar]

its really wierd and funny how they put these rules ..... that a black person can call onother black person a nigger , but a white person will get beaten up if he did ......

plus these rappers and in the movies use so much the word nigga ( yo my niggaz , niggaz in da house ) etc.. , that i dont really get what the word nigger means now !

p.s : is it also ok if a white person calls onother white dude whity , but a black person cant ?

(Edited by Derar at 2:13 pm on Feb. 17, 2002)

[libereco]

whats interesting is that there are a lot of white rappers all over Europe, and they get along great with the black ones, noone calls them posers.

But there are also white rappers in the US that get more respect. For example the mc of the High and Mighty...i forgot his name.

[Zippy]

What annoys me about things like this is the hypocracy, and i may go off on a tangent here so bear with me, for i shall give an example of my own experiences.

On my college course there are a few black kids, and a few white hip-hop fans who get along quite well. I dont really get on with this group and i just sit with my friends, because i dont socialise very well. But i was once called racist, and i am far from it, because i dont mingle well with them.
Yet, i once had to work with white hip-hop fans and they were calling our teacher, who is African, a "bud bud" and i was shocked at the hypocracy of them all. In reality its not whether you are racist or not, its whether you show it or not.

Zippy.

[Rob]

I might be alone in this belief, but I think the comparison between Eminem/Vanilla Ice and Bad Brains might be flawed. Eminem and Vanilla Ice coopted a "black" music, but then cleaned it up (at least in Ice's case). Bad Brains, on the other hand, borrowed from punk, a "white" music, but then invented a new kind of punk, hardcore. But other than that, Bad Brains didn't really clean up the music and make more pop acceptable. They kept politics alive in it, and also played harder and faster than any other punk band before them.

[Sasafrás]

OK, Derar, "nigga" is supposed to be different than "nigger." How and why, I have no idea. But, I don't really know about the whitey thing. I honestly don't think white people are as uptight about words like "whitey," "honkey," and "cracker" (are you familiar with these words?) as blacks are about words like "nigger" (or "nigga" ), "coon," "monkey," etc. I wouldn't do it either way, but I don't think that the white people I know would be offended by my calling them "whitey." I don't think it's fair that blacks can say the n-word while whites typically cannot. Especially in the case of white people who really may not know the whole history behind this word, and may believe that it is not such a bad thing since blacks use it amongst each other so often. They may see it as a friendly thing, you know? I really don't think the word should be used at all.

And, Rob, I don't necessarily think that Vanilla Ice cleaned up anything because back in those days, most hip-hop/rap was pretty clean anyway. Sure, you had your Ice-T's and Ice Cubes, but most of the others were pretty un-vulgar.

But, I'm not too familiar with Bad Brains. In fact, I'm not at all.. Who?

And, Zippy, that is pretty hideous about the white hip-hop fans and the African teacher. We have a substitute teacher at my school who is African and a lot of the black kids and a white guy I know make fun of him and imitate his accent (I think Swahili is his first language). That's terrible.

[El Brujo]

There is this one kid in my school who people call "whitey" because he's albino, but he's not offended. Anyhow, lets not even bring up Eminem. He is the bigest poser and fucking loaser on the face of this planet (and it has nothing to do with me being an ICP fan either). First off, he sounds like an 8 y/o girl on helium, second, his lyrics have no creativity whatsoever apart from bashing random people. Its not funny either, its actually the worse excuse for funny music since Anal ****.

[I Will Deny You]

That's a good idea, for all the black people who know him to stop talking to him all at once. His image is all about being "tough" (white or not, he looks like a 14-year-old, with no hard feelings toward Drake, who is ten times cooler than Eminem). If every black person he knew just said "fuck this" and the only person talking to him was his laywer all the kids would say that it doesn't matter how many times he uses the word faggot on his latest album, he's just a weenie. (How come no one uses the word weenie anymore?) That would probably be the only way to get rid of Eminem, for all the black people to stop talking to him.

[MJM]

I've been called whitie by friends in the past just like I'll call my brown brothers or something like that, all in good humor and with no bad intentions, I've been called honkey by some too. I say nigger around them but never call anyone nigger, funny enough I was with these 3 guy's the other day me and one other white guy, one of the guy's said "wouldn't it be funny if the cops came around the corner and saw 4 niggas all standing around this car with the stereo out of it".It's the manner in which you say it I think not the actual words.

(Edited by MJM at 1:27 pm on Feb. 19, 2002)

[Derar]

But whats really funny , and sad at the same time ....... that now youth in the usa use words like Bigga for a brown person who acts like a black person and is into hip-hop...... and wigga for a white person that does so !!!!!

[I Will Deny You]

Nigger is like the word Commie - it's all about context.

Kike is a completely different matter - it's never used nicely. Nigger was a friendly word a long time ago, but kike never was

[CPK]

duh me, but what is a 'kike'?

[I Will Deny You]

When someone calls a Jew a kike, it's the equivalent of calling a gay person a fag or calling a black person a nigger.

It's not very nice.

[Sasafrás]

I have a question: from what or where did the word "kike" originate? I have no idea. I know about other words like "cracker" and "honkey," but I really don't know the history behind "kike." And, when was "nigger" a friendly term? How did that originate, as well? I have basic ideas of that but I really do not know for sure..

¡Gracias, Obrigado, Danke, Xie Xie!

:) La Rainbeaux :)