Madagascar: Soldiers ignore orders to shoot protestors. Prepare to defend people.

[cyu]

Excerpts from http://www.marxist.com/madagascar-troops-defy-orders.htm

The soldiers refused to obey orders to fire on the people and repress anti-government demonstrators. Following this, they then declared they would not obey government orders either.

As one rebel soldier stated, "We no longer take orders from our hierarchy, we are following our hearts. We were trained to protect property and citizens, not to fire at people. We are with the people."
http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/madagascar/anti_government_protest.jpg



They stated that they were simply refusing to be used against protesting civilians. Colonel Noel Rakotonandrasana, a spokesperson of the rebel soldiers, reiterating this point, explained that, "We cannot accept the repression of the civilian population."

Since the beginning of this year about 100 people have been killed on the streets by the army. In February a protest rally was marching on the presidential palace but it was met with brutal repression and 28 people were killed.

Like most African countries, Madagascar has been forced by the World Bank and the IMF to apply so-called structural adjustment programmes, involving opening up its markets to the more powerful industrialised countries and privatisation.

Ravalomanana's so-called "free market reforms" are now being exposed for what they really are, an attack on ordinary working people on the island.

In the political vacuum that exists in the country we have unfortunately a struggle between two businessmen. But the movement of the masses and the revolt within the ranks of the army shows quite clearly that the potential is there for something much bigger.

in acute social, economic and political crises, when the masses start to move, the soldiers, the "workers in uniform", sons of workers and peasants, can turn against their officers, refuse to be used against the masses, and can therefore be won over to revolution. The famous "armed bodies of men" cannot always be relied on by the ruling classes. What we have seen in Bangladesh and Madagascar are indications of how deep the crisis is becoming.

[Josef Balin]

As one rebel soldier stated, "We no longer take orders from our hierarchy, we are following our hearts. We were trained to protect property and citizens, not to fire at people. We are with the people."

Soldiers of a bourgeoise government didn't shoot at a bourgeoise movement. Why does this matter to us?

[Vahanian]

It shows that one military is willing to stand up to there leaders and tell them that the wont oppress the masses any more. that sounds slightly important to me

[Louis Pio]

Soldiers of a bourgeoise government didn't shoot at a bourgeoise movement. Why does this matter to us?

I think you should jump out of your ivory tower sometimes. A movement however imperfect it is in your eyes, is still an indication of what is to come or can come.
But I take you are one of those people that just think the revolution will happen magically overnight after a bit of propaganda that suddenly cause the mass of people to adopt a fully revolutionary socialist programme?

[ZeroNowhere]

I think you should jump out of your ivory tower sometimes. A movement however imperfect it is in your eyes, is still an indication of what is to come or can come.
But I take you are one of those people that just think the revolution will happen magically overnight after a bit of propaganda that suddenly cause the mass of people to adopt a fully revolutionary socialist programme?
Oh, please, now you're arguing that this is somehow to lead to socialism? I mean, it's cool, yes, and I may just be biased against you because you used the 'ivory tower' slur, which is fucking boring, though I'm not in total agreement with the other person either.
If we are to be happy about it, it is because, "it shows that one military is willing to stand up to there leaders and tell them that the wont oppress the masses any more. that sounds slightly important to me." Not because it has any relation to socialism, because it doesn't.

[Louis Pio]

Well I find the "ivory tower" term to be quite usefull against the former poster even though I agree it has been used too much before.
I never said this would somehow lead to socialism, however I consider it a duty for any proclaimed socialist to engage in these kinds of struggles even when they don't have a socialist programme or aim. And when it don't exist we should provide it

[Charles Xavier]

Oh, please, now you're arguing that this is somehow to lead to socialism? I mean, it's cool, yes, and I may just be biased against you because you used the 'ivory tower' slur, which is fucking boring, though I'm not in total agreement with the other person either.
If we are to be happy about it, it is because, "it shows that one military is willing to stand up to there leaders and tell them that the wont oppress the masses any more. that sounds slightly important to me." Not because it has any relation to socialism, because it doesn't.


yes it does, all progressive struggles have a relation to socialism.

[cyu]

Soldiers of a bourgeoise government didn't shoot at a bourgeoise movement. Why does this matter to us?


As an anarchist, I see it more in terms of disobeying orders. In a sitation like this, I would support encouraging the soldiers to assume democratic control of the military - voting out their officers, talking with everyone about what's the best course of action, instead of just listening to what the chain of command claims is the best course of action.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

As an anarchist, I see it more in terms of disobeying orders. In a sitation like this, I would support encouraging the soldiers to assume democratic control of the military - voting out their officers, talking with everyone about what's the best course of action, instead of just listening to what the chain of command claims is the best course of action.

Exactly from an Anarchist perspective this action is important. The soldiers stadining up and saying they will not obey but command themselves, this is Anarchism. It shows us the strength of Anarchism in so many instances where the word Anarchism isn't mentioned.

[Charles Xavier]

Exactly from an Anarchist perspective this action is important. The soldiers stadining up and saying they will not obey but command themselves, this is Anarchism. It shows us the strength of Anarchism in so many instances where the word Anarchism isn't mentioned.
That was the funniest thing I read all day :laugh:

[Bitter Ashes]

Mutiny does happen within miliitaries, even the ones that people dont usualy think of. Soldiers are human biengs and they do have thier own opinions of right and wrong. Just because they're threatened with punishment for voicing them, just like most workers, doesnt change that. If you try set up a union in a civilian workplace and you get caught, chances are, you'll end up in the next redundancy. If you voice any opinions against your leaders in the army, you end up getting at best a beasting and at worst jail time. It's even more difficult to express these opinions because the army is not a 9 to 5 job. It's 24/7. You're very very rarely "off duty".
Despite this, when rights are pushed too far, enlisted soldiers will get increasingly daring with what they talk ammoungst themselves about, usualy after thier NCOs voice the things they're already thinking about. That's kinda the signal that you can get away with talking about it and your NCO wont rat you in to the Officers.
The US army lost over 200 officers to fragging incidents, 60,000 desertions and several high profile cases where enlisted soldiers were prepared to risk facing the brunt of military law in order to prosecute thier officers for thier part in attocities like Mai Lai.
This is a good article and I advise people to read it:
http://libcom.org/history/vietnam-gi-resistance
I'm pretty sure that most of the myths surrounding the incidents you will find debunked in the last section "The makeup of the resistance" and I strongly advise everyone to read that part at least.

[Mather]

That was the funniest thing I read all day


In what way?

[LOLseph Stalin]

This is big. You would think that the military would obey all government orders. tHat's what they're trained to do afterall. This means they're finally realizing that they're being ordered to be oppressive towards the common person. If we can get military on our side that's definitely a huge step in creating a successful vanguard.

[fabilius]

This is big. You would think that the military would obey all government orders. tHat's what they're trained to do afterall. This means they're finally realizing that they're being ordered to be oppressive towards the common person. If we can get military on our side that's definitely a huge step in creating a successful vanguard.

It gives you hope that even soldiers, who are trained to oppress or even brainwashed, still can be won over by sympathy.

It´s not a socialist revolution, but it shows human nature at it´s best.