How do you deal with seeing predjudice

[Pogue]

Recently I've experienced alot of racism, people making racist/xenophobic remarks off hand, which fucks me off.

Often this'll happen amongst a group of people I am talking too. For example recently I was with a grou of people who were friends of a friend of mine and one of the guys I was previously conversing with starts talking about how 'Polish people are dodgy plumbers' etc. He then started telling us to look at this guy he called 'Chinese' who had the apperance of being east-asian (Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc, the countries in the far-east) who was quite large and said 'How could he get so fat when all they eat is rice'.

The guy he was talking about clearly heard this.

Cos I had been talking to this guy for a while previously before and cos I was getting sort of friendly with them, I was taken aback. Also cos it was that sort of arogant snide middle class bullshit racism as opposed to open racial abuse like as if some nazi started shouting 'paki bastard' at an asian fella. So I didn't know how to react.

When its awkward like that I always say something but its sor tof hard because of the whole situation, how unexpected it was etc. So I end up saying something timid. If he was openly saying to someones face 'paki' or so, I would have shouted at him. But the circumstances shook me. So I sor tof timidly remarked at how Chinese people eat more than rice, and that I didn't like the anti-Polish stuff. But not in my mega-aggro fuck you fascist mode, because i was so shocked and I wasn't sure how to respond. Like I said if it was more open, aggressive racism from someone I didn't know, I would have responded differently. But i refer specifically to unexpected incidents with people you preivously got on with, who perhaps are friends with your friends, etc.

Anyone been in similar situations? How do you deal with it? How do you avoid potential problems arising from a more angry response?

My form of response didn't impact the guy. I dont think he even realised I was challenging him because I did it kinda timid. I want to learn how to deal with it better, you know? Any tips?

[benhur]

There's not much one can do. Certain things never change, we just have to get used to them. Even if the whole world becomes socialist, we'd still encounter such problems because you'll always have people who're so superficial that they can't see beyond race, skin color etc.

Socialism isn't a solution to this, as some leftists believe. It can solve economic problems such as the disparity between rich and poor, prevent the abuse and exploitation of workers, stop poverty, and all the rest. But it can never offer solutions to problems like racism, because these problems aren't only related to socio-economic factors, but more often than not, they're psychological (or some would say pathological).

[rioters bloc]

Most of the time I am too timid to say anything. I just get really really really angry inside and think of all the things I would like to say, and regret not saying them. Sometimes I want to punch them in the face, but I never have.

Very rarely I will make a sarcastic comment or pull them up on it, but it depends on how I am feeling, my relationship with them, what they've said or done, and their spatial proximity to me (I have been known to loudly say rude things about someone as I walk away from them, for example). I am more likely to say or do something if they are treating someone else badly, rather than myself. I am more likely to say something if I know them well, but it may not be immediate - I will probably take some time to think about how I am going to approach it with them and try and do it in a way that will not make them react defensively. I am more likely to do something these days then I did before (especially to strangers), mainly because I am just fed up with trying diplomatic approaches to these sorts of things and I would rather be passive aggressive and give them a dirty or eyeball them right back, or talk about "racists" in a loud voice near them.

But yeah all that said, it is very rare... I usually only will say something if I feel it is actually going to make a difference.

[Inner Logic]

There's not much one can do. Certain things never change, we just have to get used to them. Even if the whole world becomes socialist, we'd still encounter such problems because you'll always have people who're so superficial that they can't see beyond race, skin color etc.

Socialism isn't a solution to this, as some leftists believe. It can solve economic problems such as the disparity between rich and poor, prevent the abuse and exploitation of workers, stop poverty, and all the rest. But it can never offer solutions to problems like racism, because these problems aren't only related to socio-economic factors, but more often than not, they're psychological (or some would say pathological).

Prejudice arises from the material conditions we are subjected to at a point in our lives (as any other state of mind or opinion). What you advocate many would call the human nature strawman argument, as you say that there will always be people who hold these types of superficial prejudices. Now you must understand that class in itself leads to many environmentally induced experiences. Therefore, to change class is to change the minds of the populace. Now, I do not by any means say that socialism/any other progressive alternative will inherently lead to the abolition of prejudice, but it will get rid of some of the material conditions which have been demonstrated to lead to such a frame of mind.

[karambit]

Very little you can do except punch them square in the eye and ask them if they look even 'chinkier' than the guy they were making fun of. This isn't a very easy method to do but sometimes it's required to make the point. :crying:

[Mujer Libre]

Most of the time I am too timid to say anything. I just get really really really angry inside and think of all the things I would like to say, and regret not saying them. Sometimes I want to punch them in the face, but I never have.
Yeah, that happens to me all the time. I often end up at home thinking about what I would have liked to say to them.

Sometimes it's good to have a third party with you who is quick enough to pipe up with something. I remember being at the cricket in South Africa once, and these white boys said something racist aimed at me. I didn't know what to do, but before I even had time to react, the friend I was with (also white) completely went off at them- she was going for quite some time...

They were very quiet after that. :lol:

Oddly enough though, just as a piece of trivia. I've encountered much more personal racism here in Australia than in SA. I think in SA there's a perception that we belong there, whereas in Australia there's this sense of us "not belonging" and of it being a "white" country. So, for example, when white tourists want directions, they almost always deliberately bypass me and ask the nearest white person for directions. Or people who work in shops pull this "I'm concentrating extra hard when you speak" face because they assume I'll have an accent and speak bad English. (Fuck you all, I speak better English than you :mad:) It's subtle, but incredibly dispiriting when it's a constant presence in your life.

(Excuse the slightly drunk rant. Sunday afternoon drinks always turn into more than one plans for...)

Oh, another anecdote. I was walking home in Melbourne, and overheard some council workers who were fixing the road talking about the Exhibition Buildings, and one of them looked up and exclaimed about "the farkin' abo flag" and how wrong it was that Australia's Indigenous people were being represented on the world heritage building... He was really agressive, so I decided against telling him off then and there (plus the other road worker with him was a bit disapproving of him), so I tried to complain to the council- at least to draw their attention to this shit... But they just ignored me and implied that I had no "proof" that it had happened. So yeah, I think it's probably better to take these things on and challenge them as they arise, but it's very difficult.

[JimmyJazz]

Don't say nothing, that's for sure. Saying something doesn't mean you have to get in a big fight about it; just make it known that you disagree.

I was having dinner with my dad the other night, and we were talking about my sort-of plans to live in South America, and when I said stuff about how I'd like to visit/live in Cuba he said something about it being "totalitarian". I just said "I don't think it's that totalitarian really; actually I think it's a democracy" and kept talking about what we were talking about. Also recently my buddy asked me something about Obama's stance on guns, and I said "I don't know, I don't really follow politics" and when he looked at me weird (knowing that I have opinions) I said "I don't follow bourgeois politics" and just smiled at him.

My point is that it's easy to drop your views, as just that--your personal views--without coming to blows.

In your case I admit it was a bit harder, because he would have had the "I was just joking" defense. I probably would have just made conversation over him with the other people and ignored his whole little thread of conversation. Or if it was just me and him, just not given him any response so he'd take the hint.

[rioters bloc]

ML, re: racist things that people do - I know how you feel, the main reason I can't/don't say anything most of the time is because it isn't verbal, so if I say something to them they can easily just tell themselves that "its just a crazy brown lady" and disregard me, and other people who witnessed it might think the same cos they haven't experienced what I just have.. Like when people eyeball me like they have NEVER seen a Muslim woman before in their life, when someone moves 10m away from me when I stand near them at the tramstop to go and stand next to a white man instead, when I don't get served in cafes til after the 2 groups of white people that come 10 minutes AFTER me, when I don't get served AT ALL (and I know they can't have missed me walking in, given its a small place and there's noone else in it, and I see them look at each other and roll their eyes as soon as I walk in before promptly turning away), when people address the white people I'm with instead of me cos I must be fucking STUPID, right?, when you can see the doubletake in their faces when I speak to them in clear and eloquent English... It makes me so fucking angry but what am I supposed to say? "Why are you glaring at me?" "Why did you roll your eyes when I walked in?" It's so hard to say anything at all without sounding like I'm paranoid!

I've started to do what my partner does which is just stare right back when I catch someone giving me a dirty (although I haven't mastered his accompanying big grin to freak them out), and it does feel a bit empowering when they get embarrassed and look away (like yeahhhh fuck you, I have eyes too you know, its not just whitey who knows how to use them), but other than that.. what are you meant to do?!

[Pogue]

I'd like to make it clear i'm talking about the very specific example when it shocks you and comes from someone you previously liked.

If i saw some racists physically or verbally harrasing someone big time and i didnt know them before, i will and have done something, but i mean when it comes from someone you know or liked previusly.

[NecroCommie]

I would usually be quite loud about my oppinions on these kinds of persons, but lately I have noticed how my big sister and her husband are both quite xenophobic. Somehow I cant make myself say it at her face... :blushing:

I hate it how racism seems to be pop nowadays.

[mykittyhasaboner]

When some person makes a racist comment and is fairly serious, I tell them to fuck off. End of story. But, if they are your friend, you should correct them and tell them that you dont appreciate that kind of racist crap. It all depends on the situation, you either have to hit em hard and demoralize their racial thoughts, or lend out a hand and explain why they should refrain from using racist language/stupid racist jokes.

[Decolonize The Left]

If someone makes a prejudiced comment around you, and they are your friend, it is your responsibility to them to inform them of the reality of their comment.

Something like this works just fine:
"Hey, I know that your comment was made in jest, but it's really quite racist and unacceptable."

Not hard, not abrasive, kind and respectful. That's the approach.

- August

[Killfacer]

Depens what it is. If someone makes a racist remark in front of me then i do nothing. If someone says a racist remark to somebody then i would feel compelled to tell them to shut up. Unless i was going to get my head kicked in, then i would shut up.

Also depends who i am with. I had mates at my old school who used to refer to a shop as the "paki shop". It's vile and i new at the time it was vile, but i never said anything.

[rioters bloc]

I'd like to make it clear i'm talking about the very specific example when it shocks you and comes from someone you previously liked.

If i saw some racists physically or verbally harrasing someone big time and i didnt know them before, i will and have done something, but i mean when it comes from someone you know or liked previusly.

Depending on my relationship with them, what they said, and whether I think it is worth trying to do something about it...

I will either break off the friendship, and in my passive aggressive way try and let them know why I did so.

I will pull them up on it immediately - this is much easier for me to do online. For example, someone on my Facebook used the word "nigger" as a "joke" on one of my photos, to which a coupla people went ":O" and "Oooh.. you used the N word!" I deleted all the comments which referenced it including the original one and said that I didn't appreciate people using racist language on my Facebook. She messaged me afterwards apologising profusely. Hopefully that will make her think twice before she does it again.

I will sit down with them and talk about it after the fact, I've never had to do this with racism but with sexism yes, from friends who are left activists and have really good feminist politics in theory but unfortunately their behaviour was pretty sexist (we were working together on a project and the division of labour was.. well we won't go there). So I called a meeting with the two guys and the other two womyn who felt the same way as me and basically just told them why I thought their behaviour was not cool. I couldn't look at them the whole time cos I was so nervous but I was glad I did it cos they both felt bad about it once they realised how they'd been acting and promised to change. One of them did, the other one is an asshole and we've all given up on him completely now cos he is way arrogant and the way he treats people is fucked, so we just don't have anything to do with him. But the other one tried hard and it worked, so I think that if you have a close relationship with them and think that it will work, this method is pretty effective.

[Plagueround]

When my friends make prejudiced remarks, I'll usually say something to ridicule the absurdity of what they suggest, taking it ultra literally. For example, if they say "The Seattle Mariners are gay." I'll reply "Really, I didn't know that. Do you have any evidence that each and every member of the team and staff are homosexuals, and if so, how does this impact their performance on and off the baseball field?" They then apologize or shut up, often leading them to think about their behaviors.

In other instances, where they say something that is blatant and not just using the language in a casual manner, I'll usually start laying into them pretty heavily with an in depth conversation. Once again, they usually apologize or shut up, often leading them to think about their behaviors.

If it's someone I don't know, I usually do the old "assess the situation" bit. If a group of muscular skinheads want to talk trash, it is not a good idea for me, alone, to assert myself on moral grounds...I'm a bit of a survivalist. They'll get theirs eventually. ;)

[Bitter Ashes]

Depends how well I know the person.
I may give a sharp look to a stranger.
To an aquantance I'd probably just roll my eyes and try to change the subject and avoid challenging them until I knew them better, unless they were persistant. IN which case I'd probably get annoyed and go on a rant.
If it's somebody I know well, then I'd try push them towards a more diverse mindset, by gently showing them the flaws in thier thinking. If I cant convince them, then it just gets put down as a taboo subject. If they break the taboo then we part ways.
There was actualy an incident earlier this week with the other girl I clean with. Her husband had just lost his job and she was blaming the Polish immigrants for it because the company had chosen to keep the Polish employees on. I managed to get her to one hell of a u-turn actualy by pointing out that capitalism was the one really to blame because it had led to the employer feeling pressured into only keeping staff that they could exploit the most to get the most profit to stay in buisness. I was quite suprised when she agreed with me and even went on to say that she would support bringing down the system that rewards such exploitation.
Overall, I think I did good. ^^

[ibn Bruce]

I have a plan to walk up and introduce myself to them and ask if I have something on my face :P

Though I usually get by with a crazy grin and stare.... still building up the courage to, when they look at me, look them straight in the eyes, smile and mouth 'Allahu Ackbar' :)

In all seriousness, if someone I know does it, I just try and make it clear that it isn't acceptable. Either through telling them as such or, sometimes more effectively, walking away after looking at them disappointedly. However this has led to me only having 1 friend from high school left.

[MarxSchmarx]

I'd like to make it clear i'm talking about the very specific example when it shocks you and comes from someone you previously liked.

If i saw some racists physically or verbally harrasing someone big time and i didnt know them before, i will and have done something, but i mean when it comes from someone you know or liked previusly.
_________________

Usually a "Dude, that's not cool", the same attitude you'd use if they wanted to kindle drama or something will suffice.

[ibn Bruce]

Today there was a lady at my bus stop that ranted and ranted about Muslims at the top of her voice while occasionally glancing at me. I felt so de-humanised, I didn't know what to do, because nothing could get through that irrationality. So instead I just felt awful.

Sucks.

[benhur]

Today there was a lady at my bus stop that ranted and ranted about Muslims at the top of her voice while occasionally glancing at me. I felt so de-humanised, I didn't know what to do, because nothing could get through that irrationality. So instead I just felt awful.

Sucks.

You'll have to fight fire with fire, once you realize you can't reason with irrational people. Complaining won't do. It only emboldens them to continue like this in the future.

[Wanted Man]

Also cos it was that sort of arogant snide middle class bullshit racism as opposed to open racial abuse like as if some nazi started shouting 'paki bastard' at an asian fella. So I didn't know how to react.
Oh yeah, that shit is actually worse to deal with. Also because it gives intellectual justification to those assholes who simply shout "paki bastard".

Luckily, the "middle class bullshit racists" are usually also smart/cowardly enough to keep a lid on it, but when they don't, you're in for a good time. Stories about how Arabs are terrorists who will "get 72 virgins" (because they are camel jockeys with backwards beliefs, amirite?), or suggestions that criminal kids of Moroccan background need to be "humiliated", because that's the only language they understand, and it "works" in Morocco. Oh boy.

How I would react to it? I suppose it'd depend on the condition, I guess. You can't intervene every time you overhear a stranger say something prejudiced, but if it was someone closer to me, I might rip into them. In the case of this sort of prejudice, it's easier to pinpoint its origins (them media, usually) and then you can show that they are bullshit. Whereas some moron who shouts at "foreigners" in the streets will likely just stare at you blankly until you finish.

[Dr Mindbender]

I don't often encounter racism in my day to day routine, unfortunately i've seen homophobia raise it's ugly head in my workplace.

One of the gay guys who was recieving harrassment from management decided to leave one day. I overheard a comversation on the table next to me where a number of my colleagues were saying things like ''finally that fruity bastard has gone'' while impersonating his percieved infeminite behaviour by 'limping' their wrists.

I think this type of prejudice is harder to even combat than racism, especially in societies where homophobia is a percieved norm, which is most societies.

[Killfacer]

I don't often encounter racism in my day to day routine, unfortunately i've seen homophobia raise it's ugly head in my workplace.

One of the gay guys who was recieving harrassment from management decided to leave one day. I overheard a comversation on the table next to me where a number of my colleagues were saying things like ''finally that fruity bastard has gone'' while impersonating his percieved infeminite behaviour by 'limping' their wrists.

I think this type of prejudice is harder to even combat than racism, especially in societies where homophobia is a percieved norm, which is most societies.

A lot of homophobia is done with a wink and a smile aswell. I have a feeling that if people of an ethnic minority were lampooned in the way homosexuals are on TV, people would be outraged.

It's vile.

[karambit]

What is even more ironic is a lot of the homophobes I've encountered in my day to day life are African American.:rolleyes:

[ibn Bruce]

I was forced to leave my workplace by a woman who described the Cronulla race riots as 'about time those effing lebs got what was coming to them'. She also identified as Queer. What can I conclude from that? Nothing at all. Being a minority does not make you immune from the propaganda of discrimination within the state.

[gorillafuck]

I tell something like "Dude, don't say that", in a calm and respectful way. If they continue to say prejudice statements, I get more openly angry.

If they're just flat out harassing someone, I start really telling them off.

[karambit]

Like I said before, a quick one-two punch to their eye sockets usually does the trick. You must follow up with the question, "say, do you think your eyes are more chinky than the chink you were making fun of?".:thumbup1:

[Atrus]

I cannot stand prejudice, inequality of any kind. What I've been noticing recently is that, while xenophonbia largely frowned upon in society [that isn't to say there is not FAR too much of it], homophobia seems to be no issue what so ever.
Words like "Fag" "gay" "poofter" etc are used to describe anyone who doesn't give into peer pressure or do something manly etc, and I can't stand that. The generalisations that a homosexual is someone who refuses to do something "macho" and is afraid to break any rules really pisses me off. Normally when I hear it, I'll rant at people. For example, one of my friends of chinese descent called me a "fag" for whatever reason, so I told him that unless he expects me to call him a "chink" with no repurcussions, he should never use them in that context again.
I just can't see "gay" as a word ever leaving the playground as a part of name calling. But I can't see why it should be any better than "nigger".

[ibn Bruce]

You'll have to fight fire with fire, once you realize you can't reason with irrational people. Complaining won't do. It only emboldens them to continue like this in the future.

If I bear it with manners and humility, it achieves nothing. If I yell at them or challenge them, its because I am a crazy Muslim. You can't win, no matter what I do they will interpret my actions negatively.

[Bilan]

What is even more ironic is a lot of the homophobes I've encountered in my day to day life are African American.:rolleyes:

There's three ways this can go.
Either you don't know the meaning of "irony", or you seem to think that because African Americans are an oppressed group, they are free from prejudice. The third option is that you think African Americans have a more comfortable with varying sexualities.
Which is it?

[Bilan]

If I bear it with manners and humility, it achieves nothing. If I yell at them or challenge them, its because I am a crazy Muslim. You can't win, no matter what I do they will interpret my actions negatively.

Well, if you yell at someone, then yes, they will probably look for something to attack you on - and when its a common prejudice, it'll commonly be used.
You see that sort of thing all the time, in some of the most disgusting ways. A woman complains, "PMS", "Feminazi", etc. Though, I could almost bet most who use things like PMS as a means of demeaning women, probably don't even know what it means.
Nevertheless, the only way I've ever seen challenging prejudice work is through rational criticism - calm and collected, and tear the argument apart.

Most of the prejudice is born out of stereotypes and ignorance, the usual "its common sense/knowledge" thing (though both originate from the presumption of knowledge, rather than actuality of it, but that's another story), which is easily deconstructable because it has no basis beyond presumptions, which are themselves based on presumptions.

The best way I've found to do it is to make people present their arguments for it, and to deconstruct it, bit by bit, without humiliating them (Thats when you do it one on one). There are so many flaws, historical and biological farces in these prejudiced argumentsit's just not funny.

[ibn Bruce]

Nevertheless, the only way I've ever seen challenging prejudice work is through rational criticism - calm and collected, and tear the argument apart.

The assumption being that their hatred is rational, when it is usually not. I have shattered apart peoples conceptions about race, about Muslims, and yet they still remain bigoted and hate filled. These things are often an expression of anxiety rather than any rational fear.

Muslims are an oppressed minority in this country, but that will not stop even the left falling for 'state within a state', '5th column' propaganda. They did it to the Jews and they do it to us. If there were lepers around, they'd probably do it to them too.

[Bilan]

The assumption being that their hatred is rational, when it is usually not. I have shattered apart peoples conceptions about race, about Muslims, and yet they still remain bigoted and hate filled. These things are often an expression of anxiety rather than any rational fear.

That's not the assumption, its infact, the exact opposite. The hatred is irrational, but irrationality can still be challenged.
And it usually takes time, anyway. One blow to their prejudices wont usually get rid of it for good.

[Black Dagger]

What is even more ironic is a lot of the homophobes I've encountered in my day to day life are African American.:rolleyes:

How/why is that ironic?

[benhur]

How/why is that ironic?

Because normally, we feel that an oppressed community would be able to better understand the pain (of discrimination) that another oppressed group is undergoing.

[Dr Mindbender]

Because normally, we feel that an oppressed community would be able to better understand the pain (of discrimination) that another oppressed group is undergoing.

i think thats a rather idealistic way to look at it.

Many societies develop an 'enemy' or 'boogeyman' to vent their frustrations.

Not that i'm condoning this, but you can't expect people to join the dots when they dont have access to the right ideas. Homophobia is rife in ethnic minority communities as with any other because ideas like this are perpetuated and sustained by the beourgioise media.

[Jazzratt]

Because normally, we feel that an oppressed community would be able to better understand the pain (of discrimination) that another oppressed group is undergoing.

Why? Being part of an oppressed group doesn't grant people a kind of emotional clairvoyance. Otherwise the working class wouldn't vote BNP, members of some immigrant communities wouldn't attack women or gay people and there would be no gay people among the ranks of the bourgeoisie.

It's not a surprise or an "irony" at all.

[Bilan]

Because normally, we feel that an oppressed community would be able to better understand the pain (of discrimination) that another oppressed group is undergoing.

You know that there is absolutely no basis for such an idea, don't you?

[brigadista]

Because normally, we feel that an oppressed community would be able to better understand the pain (of discrimination) that another oppressed group is undergoing.


why?

[brigadista]

the worst racists are the ones with power. if someone is racist to my face i prefer it to the boss who excludes me from a job based upon my race with a smile on his/her face.

[benhur]

why?

Because experience is the best teacher. If I experience (not merely read about it in books) the pain that comes with discrimination, it'll teach me NOT to discriminate against others, perhaps also to protect them. It's natural for a decent, civilized human being to think like this.

[Jazzratt]

Because experience is the best teacher. If I experience (not merely read about it in books) the pain that comes with discrimination, it'll teach me NOT to discriminate against others, perhaps also to protect them. It's natural for a decent, civilized human being to think like this.

No it isn't. The existance of discriminated groups that display prejudice proves this. The fact that they exist in abundance, similarly shows that you are talking out of your arse.

[brigadista]

Because experience is the best teacher. If I experience (not merely read about it in books) the pain that comes with discrimination, it'll teach me NOT to discriminate against others, perhaps also to protect them. It's natural for a decent, civilized human being to think like this.


being discrimnated against is a full time fight and struggle which takes up a lot of energy especially if you dont have very much,,i think your comment may be fine from your own personal perspective but i can assure you that the situation is more complicated than you describe for others subject to structural and social discrimination and racism..

[Decolonize The Left]

Because experience is the best teacher. If I experience (not merely read about it in books) the pain that comes with discrimination, it'll teach me NOT to discriminate against others, perhaps also to protect them. It's natural for a decent, civilized human being to think like this.

But what if you are a white, heterosexual, male in a social system controlled by white, heterosexual, males? Exactly what "experience" do you have with discrimination? None.

If you are an individual as I have described, all "experience" comes from oppressed groups advocating their cause, describing their experience, and, in turn, you empathizing and understanding (as best you can) their experience.

If you deny, or do not support, these individuals and their experiences, you are facilitating a system of oppression.

- August

[Afro]

me best mate whose white (and nicknamed chink) and my other best mate terry(who is chinese) They also got a habbit of refering to race when talking bout people but in a more conversational manner. for example if a plumber does a shit job they would more than likey say the phrase mentioning the fact he was polish. The way we chat its quite common to hear racial slurs being used by all three of us. None of us are actualy racist. infact i would say me and terry are very anti-racist which aint surprising considering. would that kind of casual conversation make us racists?

Interesting enough, these two particular lhads would proly stand up for anyone who was getting any racial aggro. I have seen them myself step in for a polish lhad at our local who was getting a bit aggro.

[Dr Mindbender]

me best mate whose white (and nicknamed chink) and my other best mate terry(who is chinese) They also got a habbit of refering to race when talking bout people but in a more conversational manner. for example if a plumber does a shit job they would more than likey say the phrase mentioning the fact he was polish..

That is racist, it doesnt matter how you dress it up.

A generic sweeping, statement against a specific ethnic group of people is racism or xenophobia at best.



Interesting enough, these two particular lhads would proly stand up for anyone who was getting any racial aggro.
Which doesnt make it okay for him to make racist or bigoted jokes himself.

[communard resolution]

I cannot stand prejudice, inequality of any kind. What I've been noticing recently is that, while xenophonbia largely frowned upon in society [that isn't to say there is not FAR too much of it], homophobia seems to be no issue what so ever.

True. Katie Perry can get in the charts with songs like "Ur So Gay (And You Don't Even Like Boys)", and everybody thinks it's great fun and 'tongue in cheek'.

Do you think she could score a hit with "You're Such A Nigger (And You're Not Even Black)"? Would everyone still be laughing?

[communard resolution]

OK, I feel really stupid posting this, but since no one on here knows me in real life I guess I don't need to feel too embarrassed.

I'm currently being harrassed by a guy at work. I started a new job two months ago and get along with everyone fine - except for one guy who took an instant disliking to me, but hides it behind a 'jovial' facade. Without wanting to go into details too much, I guess you could call it xenophobic bullying.

Since I'm new and can count myself lucky I got a job in the midst of recession, I intitially went along with it grinning and bearing it, not wanting to make enemies straight away... but eventually I lost my sense of humour about it and started to ignore him.

That's when his remarks got more persistent and frequent, but still subtle enough that there's really nothing you can point your finger at when explaining it to s.o. else without sounding ridicolous.

Today was probably the worst day so far, so I ultimately asked him to stop and told him he was being annoying and came off like a broken record. He let go for the rest of the day, but I dread going back on Monday.

I'm not too snappy when it comes to quick answers - English not being my mother tongue, I have to think before I talk. When things like this happen, I usually eat it all in, and then eventually I explode - I'm scared the latter will happen some time soon, and I don't want to lose my job over losing my temper and doing something stupid.

I'm really, really not the type to go and complain to superiors - I would feel extremely lousy doing that. On the other hand, this is affecting me more than I wish it would. Right now it's been hours since I finished work and I'm still completely tense.

I thought maybe someone on here has made similar experiences and can give me some advice how to solve such problems effectively - obviously it doesn't have be connected to xenophobia, plain workplace bullying will do just fine.

Sorry if this is this doesn't belong here, in which case just ignore it. Any advice appreciated, though.

[benhur]

OK, I feel really stupid posting this, but since no one on here knows me in real life I guess I don't need to feel too embarrassed.

I'm currently being harrassed by a guy at work. I started a new job two months ago and get along with everyone fine - except for one guy who took an instant disliking to me, but hides it behind a 'jovial' facade. Without wanting to go into details too much, I guess you could call it xenophobic bullying.


I sympathize with what you're going through. There are three things you can do:

#1 If it's some racist comment he's making (I am assuming as much, since you've posted in discrimination forum), then you MUST complain and get it over with. If you don't, he may do this not only to you but to others, safe in the knowledge that nobody's gonna complain.

#2 Fight fire with fire. I've found this useful. You can always make some subtle remarks, as if to show him that two can play this game. As long as you keep quiet, he may believe you're too timid and that he can walk all over you.

#3 Finally, you can always annoy him by smiling too much, doing which he may eventually become frustrated and give up. How? Look at it this way. He's making some comments to annoy you, now if you give the impression that you're annoyed, he wins. Which means, he's gonna continue doing this to you, as long as he feels he's winning. OTOH, if you smile or even laugh loudly and embarrass him, he may become utterly frustrated (because things aren't going according to plan).

Hope this helps. I am just speaking generally, because I don't know the specific details, or how serious it is, and all the rest. It's not easy to get all this from one post, however detailed, so I am just giving a general idea; that's all.

[Julian Carax]

If things continue on this path, its obviously going to be a serious problem.

What you could attempt to do would be to sit the guy down and talk to him one on one.

He might be getting off by discriminating against you in front of a crowd, so if you get rid of the latter, and its just you and him, it might bring along a more peaceful conversation because he won't feel the need to show off in a sense.

Ask him to explain his behavior or if there has been some kind of misunderstanding.

If he insists on more bullying, after you've talked to him one on one, then you might have to fight fire with fire, like benhur said.

I hope this doesn't come off as me talking out of my ass.

I'm trying to help.

:)

[communard resolution]

1 If it's some racist comment he's making (I am assuming as much, since you've posted in discrimination forum), then you MUST complain and get it over with.

His comment aren't overtly racist - he's more subtle than that. In the beginning he would ask me very loudly "how are you" in my mother tongue once or twice a day (he had learned that phrase somewhere) and I would pretend I was amused and would just respond that I'm fine. But you can only grin so often about the same "joke".

Then it was several times a day. On Friday he would shout "(my name), how are you!" every time he walked past the spot where I was working. This may sound like nothing to get hung about, but imagine someone shouts the same phrase at you 15 or 20 times a day - plus it's obvious from the tone in his voice that he's doing it to intimidate me.

So that's where I asked him to stop and told him it was like listening to a broken record. He pretended not to hear and left me alone for the rest of the day, but I'm sure he'll come up with something new until next week.

You may think this guy is just a gigantic pain in the ass and that the story sounds rather funny - and you're right - but he crosses the line between 'harmless joke' and psychological intimidation by sheer repetition/frequency.

With this hanging in the air all the time, I can see how it may become detrimental to my performance at work.
I was glad I was out of there last night, but could still feel the tension hours later.

See, there's nothing much I could tell to anyone even if I were planning to make a complaint. He would claim he's just being friendly/jovial.

Recenly, when food delivery came in at lunchtime and I got a sandwich, he let me know that he would have wanted that sandwich as follows: "I guess Poland was quicker than me today." That's the very furthest he went with regards to being openly xenophobic, but he made sure no one else would hear it.


#2 Fight fire with fire. I've found this useful. You can always make some subtle remarks, as if to show him that two can play this game. I can see what you mean, but I don't necessarily want to be playing his game and lead some kind of permanent war at work - I'd rather he just left me alone so I could focus on whatever I'm doing.

I guess I'll just see how next week goes. OK, thanks a lot for your reply.

[communard resolution]

What you could attempt to do would be to sit the guy down and talk to him one on one.

I may try that if next week isn't any better.


He might be getting off by discriminating against you in front of a crowdNo, he usually makes sure no one else is standing close enough to hear it.


Ask him to explain his behavior or if there has been some kind of misunderstanding.
This actually sounds like a useful, diplomatic but direct phrase. Thanks!

[Pogue]

I may try that if next week isn't any better.

No, he usually makes sure no one else is standing close enough to hear it.

This actually sounds like a useful, diplomatic but direct phrase. Thanks!

Good luck mate he sounds like a nob. I experience this sort of shit everyday, though not on a racist/xenophobic level, just low level mocking passed off as joviality. I have to stop myself launching at them.

[Glorious Union]

Say this: Fight me you racist bastard!
Then be done with him. :D


I usually find way to turn around the racist's comments. Here's an example:

Racist: "The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental an physical forces, become a reality all over the world...ANTI-SEMITISM IN RUSSIA IS NOW CLASSED AS ANTI-REVOLUTIONARY AND IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. Such severity of punishments for offenders in anti-Jewish racial antagonism is only imaginable in a Jewish controlled State." and he went on like this, quite obviously bashing Jews and communism at the same time.

Response: "Are you saying that Jews are better than the rest of us because they were the brains behind communism? I think it is people like you with your Jewish pride that caused the holocaust, killing millions of your kind. Lets not let that happen again, drop the "Jewish superiority" chatter and act like a normal person"

You see how I turned that around on him?

Yes this was a discussion on the internet. He never replied back to me. I think I won. :D

[Black Dagger]

Because experience is the best teacher. If I experience (not merely read about it in books) the pain that comes with discrimination, it'll teach me NOT to discriminate against others, perhaps also to protect them. It's natural for a decent, civilized human being to think like this.

Log cabin republicans. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Cabin_Republicans)

What you suggest is an idealised view of humanity as fundamentally rational beings. Social prejudice is inherently irrational - it does't 'make sense' that a victim of racism would perpetuate racism against others but that's prejudice - it's a bunch of shit. Perhaps people in that situation may be easier to reach with an empathy and logic based argument, i.e. appealing to the racists own experiences with being victimised in a similar fashion - but none of that makes victims of discrimination immune to the irrationalities of humanity.

[redguard2009]

I'm fairly certain the entire state of Israel is testament to that.

I've had a lot of success in confronting even subtle racist overtures in people I meet in everyday life. It can range from threatening them, getting into an immense screaming arguement with them, or almost casually discussing it. All told it isn't something I ever, ever accept. It's lost me a few friends and made me some enemies but I still adamantly believe that confronting racism, in any way, is a good thing, whether it's a hard kick to the head or a quiet conversation.

[Sentinel]

Depends fully on the situation. At work and when spending time with friends etc I try to see it as my duty to combat and correct prejudicial opinions with a combination of rational argumentation, appeal to intelligence, and (as polite as possible) expression of dislike.

Of course it's not always successful or even possible however, and I do recognise myself from rb's and ML's descriptions of having a guilty consicence and regretting to not having said anything afterwards, from many situations in the past.

But I'm getting better at it -- the most important thing is that we do our best. I personally need to improve when it comes to confronting the subtle racism floating around; with homophobia it's more personal (as I am queer) and I'm admittedly quicker to lash at people about that, than when it comes to other forms of discriminatory positions expressed.

[A_Ciarra]

Hey Nero,

You don't know me, but can I pitch in my 2 cents worth about the guy you're working with? I've so been there and sympathize with you. :)

I would totally stick to dealing with him directly - don't go to the higher ups until you absolutley know there is NO talking to him yourself. You have to give the guy a chance to self police himself AFTER you have a good chance to explain to him you're not liking his behavior. If you do that, he will have a better chance to adjust, and grow up... AND be appreciative of you. This also gives him room to learn that you have qualities (which he assumes you lack).

Assholes are everywhere... Half the time they just don't know how to treat you so you have to literally tell them, while giving them the room to learn and self police themselves. You also want to let them save face a bit to so tell him just enough to get your jist - in the end this helps win them over to your side and that's really what you want. You want some co-operation and thoughtfulness out of the guy.

Hope it gets better there for you

[communard resolution]

I would totally stick to dealing with him directly - don't go to the higher ups until you absolutley know there is NO talking to him yourself. You have to give the guy a chance to self police himself AFTER you have a good chance to explain to him you're not liking his behavior.

Hope it gets better there for you

Hi A_Ciarra, thanks a lot. Turns out he actually left me alone this week - to the point of avoiding me. Maybe it was enough that I reacted the previous Friday raising my voice a little bit - it may have signalled to him that he would not be able to get away with it for much longer.

Hope this isn't the quiet before the strorm, in which case I may do just what you suggested.

Thanks to everybody again, you were being very helpful.

[Dr Mindbender]

OK, I feel really stupid posting this, but since no one on here knows me in real life I guess I don't need to feel too embarrassed.

I'm currently being harrassed by a guy at work. I started a new job two months ago and get along with everyone fine - except for one guy who took an instant disliking to me, but hides it behind a 'jovial' facade. Without wanting to go into details too much, I guess you could call it xenophobic bullying.

Since I'm new and can count myself lucky I got a job in the midst of recession, I intitially went along with it grinning and bearing it, not wanting to make enemies straight away... but eventually I lost my sense of humour about it and started to ignore him.

That's when his remarks got more persistent and frequent, but still subtle enough that there's really nothing you can point your finger at when explaining it to s.o. else without sounding ridicolous.

Today was probably the worst day so far, so I ultimately asked him to stop and told him he was being annoying and came off like a broken record. He let go for the rest of the day, but I dread going back on Monday.

I'm not too snappy when it comes to quick answers - English not being my mother tongue, I have to think before I talk. When things like this happen, I usually eat it all in, and then eventually I explode - I'm scared the latter will happen some time soon, and I don't want to lose my job over losing my temper and doing something stupid.

I'm really, really not the type to go and complain to superiors - I would feel extremely lousy doing that. On the other hand, this is affecting me more than I wish it would. Right now it's been hours since I finished work and I'm still completely tense.

I thought maybe someone on here has made similar experiences and can give me some advice how to solve such problems effectively - obviously it doesn't have be connected to xenophobia, plain workplace bullying will do just fine.

Sorry if this is this doesn't belong here, in which case just ignore it. Any advice appreciated, though.


Do you have a union? If so that should be your first port of call.

If not, and you feel you cannot speak to someone else then perhaps you should consider joining one. I would hate for any comrade to have to leave their job, especially over something like this.