Bureaucratic centralism is something it has in common with most of the far left

[The Idler]

There was a good article on the SWP latest sop to democracy here (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/759/business.html). It included the comment that "Bureaucratic centralism is something it has in common with most of the far left". Is this true and what do other parties have?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Unfortunately, it is true. However, part and parcel of the problem lies in the fact that the selection of officials is electoral and not demarchic.

[The Idler]

I read somewhere the SPGB claim they are for extreme democracy and unlike many socialist organisations they don't have secret meetings or central committees.

[Die Neue Zeit]

If the SPGB were for "extreme democracy" like the CPGB, the least they could do is examine various instances of participatory democracy in Latin America (the "Bolivarian Revolution" and participatory budgeting in certain areas within Brazil) and reject their ultra-parliamentary road to socialism.

[bellyscratch]

I read somewhere the SPGB claim they are for extreme democracy and unlike many socialist organisations they don't have secret meetings or central committees.

But the SPGB are pretty elitist about who they let join the party...

[Q]

Unfortunately, it is true. However, part and parcel of the problem lies in the fact that the selection of officials is electoral and not demarchic.

Could you elaborate on that? What problems do electoral processes create and how does demarchy solve them?

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy


Demarchy does away with the election process, thus saving the time and money involved in self-promotion, and instead gives power to a person who has not attempted to promote themselves in this manner.

[...]

While random selection will not remove political bias, what it will do is select a person as a representative who has not had to compromise their own beliefs in order to gain political alliances and support. Institutional corruption (such as a person being supported by businesses in order for both to mutually benefit from the situation) is also unlikely—any corruption would occur after the person is selected and is more likely to be reported (since the person selected would probably not be used to corruption at that scale).

[The Idler]

But the SPGB are pretty elitist about who they let join the party...
"Elitist" may be a bit misleading. The require applicants to answer 12 questions about socialism to prove they sufficiently understand the issues. Unlike the Socialist Workers Party who seem keen on student members to primarily sell newspapers.

Demarchy still concentrates power in the hands of a minority. Even the Liberal Democrats (UK) can allow the entire membership to vote on policy at conference. Why can't left-wing parties do the same?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Um, part of demarchy (ancient Greek direct democracy) is that as much of the "assembly of the whole" as possible should vote directly on at least the major issues. Random selection is thus applied to officials (for the side effect of achieving real representative democracy from a statistical point of view ;) ), not to policy.

I must say that 12 questions don't seem to be enough, especially if political issues aren't covered. ;)

[h0m0revolutionary]

If the SPGB were for "extreme democracy" like the CPGB,

Now im no fan of the SPGB but can't let this go unchallenged.

Clear you don't actually know alot about the CPGB, perhaps you're love affair with mr Mcnair has inflicted you with a case of rose-tinted glasses.

Go ask John Pearson for example. This internal critic was expelled from the CPGB Without any democratic procedure or appeal procedure. Thats the reality of the CPGB, a 20 person, undemocratic sect group with a cult of personality around their PAID organiser and 'second in command' Mr Lewis.

What sort of orginisation has no right to appeal?

Mayhaps the sort of orginisation that spents is whole insignificant existance attacking other small insignificant groups on the left for not having their Party Platform. That's why the are and remain the runt of the left litter.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Clear you don't actually know alot about the CPGB, perhaps you're love affair with mr Mcnair has inflicted you with a case of rose-tinted glasses.

Go ask John Pearson for example. This internal critic was expelled from the CPGB Without any democratic procedure or appeal procedure. Thats the reality of the CPGB, a 20 person, undemocratic sect group with a cult of personality around their PAID organiser and 'second in command' Mr Lewis.

What sort of orginisation has no right to appeal?

Mayhaps the sort of orginisation that spents is whole insignificant existance attacking other small insignificant groups on the left for not having their Party Platform. That's why the are and remain the runt of the left litter.

Being on the other side of the Atlantic, your first sentence is obvious. :(

1) When was Pearson expelled? What was this about, if not something to do with the failed Campaign for a Marxist Party project?
2) Since when did Jack Conrad become a cult figure? As for "paid organizers," I believe an equivalent would be "full-time party functionaries."
3) Isn't Ben Lewis/Klein a German resident, being a member within Die Linke?
4) Since when did Ben Lewis/Klein become #2? I thought it was CPGB comrade Macnair (with my "rose-tinted glasses" on :D ), especially having essentially taken over from Conrad's overly extensive theoretical work.
5) "Without a revolutionary program there can be no revolutionary movement." I'm not sure you, being an anarchist, can appreciate these words by Lenin on imitating the Erfurt Program and European Social Democracy. :(

[h0m0revolutionary]

1) When was Pearson expelled? What was this about, if not something to do with the failed Campaign for a Marxist Party project?
2) Since when did Jack Conrad become a cult figure? As for "paid organizers," I believe an equivalent would be "full-time party functionaries."
3) Isn't Ben Lewis/Klein a German resident, being a member within Die Linke?
4) Since when did Ben Lewis/Klein become #2? I thought it was CPGB comrade Macnair (with my "rose-tinted glasses" on :D ), especially having essentially taken over from Conrad's overly extensive theoretical work.
4) "Without a revolutionary program there can be no revolutionary movement." I'm not sure you, being an anarchist, can appreciate these words by Lenin on imitating the Erfurt Program and European Social Democracy. :(

1) Pearson was expelled because he disagreed with official party line on a tedious and insignificant question. There was a meeting of comrades who were on the left of the socialist Alliance. An Australian cpgb'er who came and he appeared at the meeting and ordered John pearson to vote in a certain way without there having been any party discussion earlier. Now despite all the appearance of openess the CPGB is highly centralised so when the leader said do it and John Person disobeyed he was set up for expulsion. The London CPGB-PCC then took a vote and expelled him. Pearson had no right of appeal, the wider CPGB membership were not consulted. No democratic procedure at all.

2) Jack Conrad is not their paid organiser, that would be Mark Fischer.. and there is a cult of personality around him, around the whole PCC in fact. Might exlain why their leadership has been unchallenged for years

"full-time party functionaries." - haha you need a full-timer for a 20 person sect group? What a waste of money. The membership should be seething about this gross waste of their money!

3) Ben Lewis lives in London, but is German yes. He is leader of Communist Students, the youth-front group of CPGB and is a leading figure in CPGB.

Mike McNair is their main theoretician these days, but not second in command. Although his hefty bank balance, from being an Oxford Lecturer, does help him become popular I imagine.

4) I have no issue with a programme, but when a group like the CPGB openly come to left-unity gatherings with intent to try and break them unless they adopt the CPGB platform, then it becomes a little more sinister.

[Tower of Bebel]

4) I have no issue with a programme, but when a group like the CPGB openly come to left-unity gatherings with intent to try and break them unless they adopt the CPGB platform, then it becomes a little more sinister.Lol, that's what "they" say from "us".