Dialectical Christianity

[Sacrificed]

The most ironic thing in the world, I think, are those Christians who lambaste dialectical materialism while subscribing to a very Hegelian form of Christianity. By this I generally mean those Fundamentalist Protestants who interpret their Bibles literally, and who have constructed out of this inerrantist belief structure a teleology based (at least in part) on the following verses of the Book of Revelation, 21:1-4


Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."What we have in this passage is nothing less than a dialectical movement in John of Patmos' train of thought: this Earth ("the world, the flesh and the Devil") and the presently existing Heaven are superseded in their synthesis by the 'New Jerusalem', a movement very nearly parallel to the Hegelian historical processes employed by Marxists in their analysis.

It is very clear that Christianity took root among the oppressed underclasses of the Roman Empire: among those Judeans who wedded the messianic idealism of Judaism to historical teleology. I can only conclude therefore that Marxism and Christianity share certain broad underpinnings in the course of their formulation; they are, essentially, moralistic twins. And while Marx was a vastly superior moralist and thinker in comparison to the Nazerene, his legendary anti-Christianity was likely a case of the proverbial lady protesting too much: his weltanschauung shares tell-tale characteristics with the hoodoo of the Christian faith.

In summa: Christianity is Communism for the moron.

[al8]

No, that does not follow. You are simply spouting nonesense.

[Sacrificed]

No, that does not follow. You are simply spouting nonesense.

Do you deny that the passage quoted - and it is a very fundamental passage in the eschatology of many literalist Christian interpreters, such as Jack Van Impe - implies an event resulting in the creation of new spiritual world out of the dissolution of its two predecessors? Then it is a dialectical movement, one which results in the attaining of a future utopia - eerily similar to Marxism.

I'm not implying that Marx lifted the idea wholesale from Revelation; but, rather, that liberationist thought of both the Christian and the Marxian stripe results from a form of dialectical thinking inherent to oppressed underclasses throughout history and the world over. Dialectical reasoning is the mechanics of despair.

[al8]

I think your major error is to jumble dialectics and historical materialism together at face value and with broad strokes. Not every commie is a historical and dialectical materialist, many are simply historical materialists period. Besides few know what dialectics are (if anyone for that matter, considering how immensely confused it is) and effectively leave it alone and pay only lip sevice to it out of tradition (sadly).

And second dialectics has nothing inherently liberatory about them. It's the same sort of Idealism as religion and is confused enough that it can be bent and twisted any number of ways. Take Francis Fukuyamas The End of History, a bourgois idiologue that thinks bourgois society is the epitome of history' dialectical development, that it's the end of history. Just the same as Hegelians that were pontificating on the Prussian Empire, in it's time, to be the end of history.

I can grant you that dialectics have striking similarities to religion or christianity. It can even serve the same fuctions as religious dogma. But communism on the whole, no way. Thats simply incorrect. Communism is the total antithesis of all religions.

[Raúl Duke]

In summa: Christianity is Dialectics for the moron.

Fixed

Although dialectics seems like non-sense whether it's Marxian, Christian, Islamic, whatever.

[Decolonize The Left]

This ought to be moved to religion.

- August

[mykittyhasaboner]

This ought to be moved to religion.

- August
Or the trashcan.

[Hit The North]

Originally posted by Sacrificed
... a movement very nearly parallel to the Hegelian historical processes employed by Marxists in their analysis.Marxists do not employ Hegelian historical processes (whatever that means). They employ a materialist analysis of historical processes. Hegel was an idealist.


Originally posted by Sacrificed
And while Marx was a vastly superior moralist and thinker in comparison to the Nazerene, his legendary anti-Christianity was likely a case of the proverbial lady protesting too much:Marx is not know for a legendary anti-Christianity. In fact compared to the anti-Christianity of the Young Hegelians, he is positively sympathetic to the material roots of religious belief.


Originally posted by al8
Not every commie is a historical and dialectical materialist, many are simply historical materialists period. Despite any propaganda you may have been exposed to, the vast majority (99%?) of Marxists are dialectical materialists in the terms that they argue that historical materialism is incoherent without appreciating its dialectical quality.


Originally posted by al8
I can grant you that dialectics have striking similarities to religion or christianity.Thanks for the piss-poor Rosa Lichtenstein impersonation, but the Marxist dialectic which focuses on the interaction of materialist forces in order to explain human history is not in the least bit similar to religious doctrine.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Despite any propaganda you may have been exposed to, the vast majority (99%) of Marxists are dialectical materialists in the terms that they argue that historical materialism is incoherent without appreciating its dialectical quality.

Got a source for that figure? It has the distinctly distressing aroma of it having been extracted from your rectal cavity.


Thanks for the piss-poor Rosa Lichtenstein impersonation, but the Marxist dialectic which focuses on the interaction of materialist forces in order to explain human history is not in the least bit similar to religious doctrine.And as we all know, the complex interplay of material forces can always be broken down into two or three simplistic categories. Or not, as the case may be.

[Hit The North]

Got a source for that figure? It has the distinctly distressing aroma of it having been extracted from your rectal cavity.Yes, I got the figure from an in-depth survey of all the world's Marxists. Or not. The point, however, (if not the figure) can be confirmed from a sample of Marxist organisations. If you, or any other, can name more than a tiny handful (if that) of Marxist organisations who reject the dialectical nature of historical materialism feel free to mention them.

[Jazzratt]

Moved to correct subforum.