Juan Peron?

[proudhon10]

I have a question for you guys. Do you consider Juan Peron, the former president of Argentina (or dictator, it depends on who you ask), to be socialist. He supported huge worker reforms, centralized government, and education reform. But he was very catholic, corporativist, and nationalist. Some political theorists even thought he was fascist. Today, the president of Argentina is from the party Juan Peron started, and she has similar views. So, if know of him and think you know the answer, please help! If not, comment on Latin American leftism in general! thanks

[Sam_b]

Can a corporatist be a socialist? There's your answer.

[Zurdito]

to quote myself in another thread:



Peronism was based on the weakness of the imperialist powers at the time which left space for the growth of manufacturing industries which previously would have drowned out by foreign exports and capital. Their growth and the need to fill spaces left by the imperialists meant that 1.) employment was created and better wages and conditions could be offered than before and 2.)the need for the creation of an internal market, which led Peron, with the support of the industrialists, to redistribute wealth away from the agro-export sector, towards the masses, who then used this to buy Argentinian manufactured products. This made Peron hated byt he traditional elite, but loved a lot of capitalists. Finally, Peron was able to use this reformism to break the power of the left int he unions and the working class, and to centralise the unions under the control of the Peronist Party, i.e. under the control of the party of industrial and weak capitalists! Even today this legacy makes it very hard for the left to operate in the working class. Peronism is a cancer on the working class, and not socialism.

Finally, when the above conditions ended, Peronism was no longer viable, and the party of the industrial capitalists was forced to turn on the workers openly slashing wages and conditions, to privatise (as Peron did with part of Argentina's oil in the 1954 I think) and eventually co-operating with a military coup which wiped out radical trade unionism and much of the left.

So not socialism or fascism, but populism based on conditions which were specific to the time.

[proudhon10]

Yeah, thank you. He was far more populist. By the way, corporatism refers to a political or economic system in which power is held by civic assemblies that represent economic, industrial, agrarian, social, cultural, and/or professional groups. These civic assemblies are known as corporations (not the same as the legally incorporated business entities known as corporations, though some are such). Corporations are unelected bodies with an internal hierarchy; their purpose is to exert control over the social and economic life of their respective areas. Thus, for example, a steel corporation would be a cartel composed of all the business leaders in the steel industry, coming together to discuss a common policy on prices and wages. When the political and economic power of a country rests in the hands of such groups, then a corporatist system is in place.

That sounds quasi-leftist...

[Zurdito]

Slightly OT but I should clarify that since I wrote that post last time around, I have learnt more, and that actually Peronism was not initially so much the party of all industrial capital, but of the smaller industrialists oriented to the internal market.

The large export oriented industrialists, although their profits and importance grew hugely under Peron, did not tend to support him, because they tended to also be the large landowners (or their sons/sons in laws etc.) and did not want the old outward-oriented model to change, seeing industrialisation as purely something which should complement the old model in specific niches where imperialist capital had withdrawn, rather than wanting a generalised drive for "economic independence"

It was only by the end of the 1960's that industrial capital in Argentina came to form a coherent bloc with one voice.

[proudhon10]

Thank you for the information!

[More Fire for the People]

He was a populist Keynesian, like Obama. Obviously, he was no Allende or Chavez but workers saw huge gains under his regime. Too bad workers' self-management and unionism didn't grow under his regime. Otherwise, he would've been ousted or forced to change.

[proudhon10]

I am going to have to conclude that Peron was not a socialist. maybe a progressive populist, but basically a capitalist.

[proudhon10]

Yeah, Allende and Chavez are my models of democratically elected socalists along with evo morales, from bolivia

[Zurdito]

He was a populist Keynesian, like Obama. Obviously, he was no Allende or Chavez but workers saw huge gains under his regime. Too bad workers' self-management and unionism didn't grow under his regime. Otherwise, he would've been ousted or forced to change.

1.) he was ousted
2.) it is not a case of "too bad". Peron was an admirer of Mussolini and a General in the army, belonging to pro-axis, pro-catholic church, anti-liberal fraction. The last thing he ever intended was "workers self-management". Peron's motto was "from the home to the workplace, and from the workplace to the home". He justified his populist measures to the bourgeosiie by saying that the alternative was disorder and communism, and his ideal society was one based on the trilogy of the Church, the Army and the (peronist run, anti-classist) Unions. In other words, a pseudo-Falangist.

Read any history of peronism to back me up, I cannot be bothered to find the (too many to mention) quotes.

[Revy]

Actually, I have read the history of Argentina, I have a book right here, called "Modern Latin America".

The picture that it paints of his reign in the '40s and '50s is quite different. He drew his support mainly from the working class, encouraged labor militancy, nationalized industries, and was staunchly secular (far from his ally, the Catholic Church saw him as an enemy, excommunicating him and his cabinet), legalizing divorce, giving the vote to women, and running a woman (his wife Evita) as his Vice Presidential running mate (in 1951!).

This seems to contradict the opinion here that he was a far-right reactionary. To call him a socialist would be absurd, I think, but so is the reverse, calling him a fascist.

[Guerrilla22]

He wasn't far right, he was a reformist, who literally gave out money to people and bankrupted the govt. doing so. He's also the reason no one in Latin America wants to be refered to as a "populist" because they equate it with Peronism.

[Ismail]

He's also the reason no one in Latin America wants to be refered to as a "populist" because they equate it with Peronism.Ironically, according to my Chilean friend, damn near every political tendency in Argentina wants to claim to be the disciples of Juan Perón or something. The communists are Peronists, the rightists are Peronists, the centrists are... Peronists.

[Guerrilla22]

Ironically, according to my Chilean friend, damn near every political tendency in Argentina wants to claim to be the disciples of Juan Perón or something. The communists are Peronists, the rightists are Peronists, the centrists are... Peronists.

Yeah I understand he is popular again in argentina again, I guess I should have said the rest of Latin America. Reporters have asked Cahvez if he's a populist or a Peronist and he gets upset.

[OneNamedNameLess]

1.) he was ousted
2.) it is not a case of "too bad". Peron was an admirer of Mussolini and a General in the army, belonging to pro-axis, pro-catholic church, anti-liberal fraction. The last thing he ever intended was "workers self-management". Peron's motto was "from the home to the workplace, and from the workplace to the home". He justified his populist measures to the bourgeosiie by saying that the alternative was disorder and communism, and his ideal society was one based on the trilogy of the Church, the Army and the (peronist run, anti-classist) Unions. In other words, a pseudo-Falangist.

Read any history of peronism to back me up, I cannot be bothered to find the (too many to mention) quotes.

Thought I would add to this post that he also harboured Fascists and Nazis from Europe during his reign.

[Salyut]

Thought I would add to this post that he also harboured Fascists and Nazis from Europe during his reign.

Very openly too. He was best buds with Skorzeny (who basically ran ODESSA). Then there was the Ezeiza massacre and the AAA...