How to make a capitalist country into a communist

[commyrebel]

First pleas post your ideas
I think first you must have worker revolution that create a strong union
then a rebellion in which chaos the a building of a socialist economy then onward to a centered communist over seeing government

yes as i said a over seeing government in true communism the government only there to make sure that thing are maintained like living environment and the economy and to ensure there no chaos.

[Inner Logic]

First pleas post your ideas
I think first you must have worker revolution that create a strong union
then a rebellion in which chaos the a building of a socialist economy then onward to a centered communist over seeing government

yes as i said a over seeing government in true communism the government only there to make sure that thing are maintained like living environment and the economy and to ensure there no chaos.

You're kidding, right? A communist government is an oxymoron, as communism is a stateless, classless society a priori.

[Rebel_Serigan]

Oh so true. The only way to achive a Socialist revolution is be in a situation where the workers and those who are oppressed can no longer ignor that fact and band together. The revelution is not the establishment of leadership, it is when people stop looking out for themselves and start seeing that we are all brothers and sisters in a struggle agaist those who don't give a shit about us unless we are trying to take thier money. To have a revelution education is need. the start of the revelution isn't with bullets or protests it is in organizations of people who have nothing in common but a problem with the elite.

[commyrebel]

You're kidding, right? A communist government is an oxymoron, as communism is a stateless, classless society a priori. if you read it all the way you would see that its just there for the stabilization of the economy(the need labour to keep the country running)

[Inner Logic]

if you read it all the way you would see that its just there for the stabilization of the economy(the need labour to keep the country running)

Ok let me put it into simpler terms. If there is a government, then it is not communism (I am not suggesting that there need not be a interim period before communism can exist, this is called the dictatorship of the proletariat).

[commyrebel]

Ok let me put it into simpler terms. If there is a government, then it is not communism (I am not suggesting that there need not be a interim period before communism can exist, this is called the dictatorship of the proletariat). what your saying it is not communism it is a utopia which is after communism is completely perfected in a country
And a dictatorship won't work for there are little to no right's which will make you fall as hinted in history

[Inner Logic]

what your saying it is not communism it is a utopia which is after communism is completely perfected in a country
And a dictatorship won't work for there are little to no right's which will make you fall as hinted in history

By dictatorship of the proletariat, I mean a direct democracy in which everyone has an equal say on every matter. As for the utopia argument, guess what? Communism is BY DEFINITION a stateless, classless society in which the workers control the means of production; calling it a utopia will not change this DEFINITION.

[robbo203]

By dictatorship of the proletariat, I mean a direct democracy in which everyone has an equal say on every matter. As for the utopia argument, guess what? Communism is BY DEFINITION a stateless, classless society in which the workers control the means of production; calling it a utopia will not change this DEFINITION.


I agree although, to be pedantic, I would not say communism entails workers controlling the means of production since workers as an entity or class would obviously cease to exist in a classless society. What you would have is just the people owning the means of production - common ownership.

This thing about the dictatorship of the proles - although Leninists make a lot of it because it conveniently obscures the dictatorship over the proletariat that existed in the state capitalist Soviet Union - has I think been done to death. The Communist Manifesto mentions it and justifies as a means to developing capitalism in a hot house fashion to the point where communism becomes possible. But if you read the prefaces to the Manifesto you will see that Marx and Engels did not set much store on the 10 revolutuonary measures advocated in the Manifesto which were essentially a recipe for state capitalism.. I think it was in the German edition they specifically said that changing conditions had made these reforms largely obsolete. The basic point that Marx and Engels were trying to drive home was about the need to capture political power. In capturing power the proletariat becomes a ruling class and in so doing abolishes itself as a class along with class society: Here is the paragraph in question:

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.

[Pogue]

If we go to punk gigs, wear trendy t-shirts, eat muesli from dustbins and drop out of university we can cause a revolution, or at least thats what i am told

[ZeroNowhere]

If we go to punk gigs, wear trendy t-shirts, eat muesli from dustbins and drop out of university we can cause a revolution, or at least thats what i am told
If one cuts the second one, it means that one has more fun. It may not be revolutionary, but I don't think that it's worth giving a shit about that, and it's always interesting to see people who accuse these people of being 'lifestylists', then claim that the 'true revolutionary lifestyle' is that of a worker. While many post-lefties actually don't seem to see what they're doing as revolutionary, even those that have have got something of a point: The rest of our movements tend to be really rather dull.
Though heavy metal is still more revolutionary, fuckers.

[NecroCommie]

Heay metal may be revolutionary, but progressive rock is progressive. :D

There is no one way to achieve succesful revolution, but mass education, raising class-conciousness and organizing worker struggles help. If post-revolution society is organized properly, then the evolution of society will take care of the rest.

Did I make this unclear enough?