I figured the Commies would like this article

[MMIKEYJ]

Basically, the time for socialists is now... strike while the iron is hot so to speak.


It has now become fashionable for America (http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=United+States)'s socialists to come out of the closet. Elected officials advocating ideological viewpoints that would have elicited derision and laughter only a few months ago are now emboldened to openly promote socialist policies. They feel safe because America's chief executive has embraced an agenda that is quickly moving America toward socialism in which the goal is to have all power vested in the state and any dissent is quashed.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/01/the-new-socialists/

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Really now? What kind of response are you hoping to invoke with another journalist who is better identified as a wanna-be economist?

This article reeks of the same anti-intellectualism popularized by the Right in the '70s as a response to the "new left's" victory. Socialists support equal opportunity, not equal outcome - it so happens that capitalism squashes opportunity by positing the landlord (and state) above free association. Hymen needs to get some facts straight before trying to make bold assertions. Up to 35% of all this stimulus package is tax breaks. http://pndblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099631d08833010536d9c2bb970c-500wi

Lowering taxes is also not a sure-fire way of stimulating an economy. If people use the tax money on debt, or sit on it, the economy goes nowhere. In fact you could potentially up in a long, drawn out cycle that would make inflation look like a child's toy.

[MMIKEYJ]

Really now? What kind of response are you hoping to invoke with another journalist who is better identified as a wanna-be economist?

This article reeks of the same anti-intellectualism popularized by the Right in the '70s as a response to the "new left's" victory. Socialists support equal opportunity, not equal outcome - it so happens that capitalism squashes opportunity by positing the landlord (and state) above free association. Hymen needs to get some facts straight before trying to make bold assertions. Up to 35% of all this stimulus package is tax breaks. http://pndblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099631d08833010536d9c2bb970c-500wi

Lowering taxes is also not a sure-fire way of stimulating an economy. If people use the tax money on debt, or sit on it, the economy goes nowhere. In fact you could potentially up in a long, drawn out cycle that would make inflation look like a child's toy.


I figured you would like the quote that i put into my message.. wasnt going for any type of response. Just figured somebody here would find it of interest. If its so hard to just have a normal conversation with you guys, how do you expect anybody to want to listen and learn from you?

[MikeSC]

I figured you would like the quote that i put into my message.. wasnt going for any type of response. Just figured somebody here would find it of interest. If its so hard to just have a normal conversation with you guys, how do you expect anybody to want to listen and learn from you?

It is an interesting article- but it's frustrating for leftists to read (or it is for me anyway, can't speak for everyone else...we' all have private little left-wings all of our own :)). It's setting socialism up to be a scapegoat by branding things socialist that are Keynesian Capitalist at best. We see it a lot in the UK- a decade of triumphs for the free markets! When it turns out it's all been a false prosperity ready to crash down around our ears people who praised it have decided it must have been socialist all along. Same kind of thing here- it's just typical red-baiting.

The fact is, a stimulus intended to put the capitalist system on life support isn't socialist. The fact that Obama knew some Marxists when he was young doesn't make his non-socialist actions socialist. Hell, Obama has a lot less socialism in his past than Ronald Reagan, who tried to join the Communist Party but was turned down for being "flaky" :)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

You know, I think it could be very good thing how the right can't stop saying the word socialist over Obama's spending (regardless of the fact that Comrade W's last budget was larger than Obama's new one. Righties never let facts get in the way...).

That way, when a real socialist runs for office and the right wing starts their smear campaign of doom nobody will care about the overused, meaningless tag lines they use. But regarding the article,


Exhibit No. 2 is Mr. Obama's grossly naive call for universal health care. His failed Health and Human Services Secretary nominee, Tom Daschle, promoted a U.K.-style of socialized medicine. I experienced firsthand the U.K.'s National Health Service, an appalling system of rationed health care. Not widely reported is the U.K.'s flourishing trade in private health care outside the NHS that does not require consumers to wait months or years for routine tests and treatments that people in America can receive on a same-day basis.


Well, if they still have the option to purchase private health care so rich fucks like yourself don't have to wait in line then what the fuck are you complaining about?


By the way, have you heard about the flourishing trade of Americans getting healthcare in third world countries because it's ridiculously expensive here?



Exhibit No. 3 is the Democratic effort to silence critics. Michigan Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow, whose husband was an executive with the now-bankrupt Air America liberal talk radio operation, has joined a growing list of Democratic elected officials who have vowed to disable the few conservative broadcast media outlets by imposing the inappropriately-named "Fairness Doctrine." Sens. Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Tom Harkin and John Kerry have joined House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former President Bill Clinton among others in vowing action that would effectively shut down criticism of their brand of government.

The 'few conservative broadcast media oulets'? As he just pointed out, the only liberal broadcast outlet is bankrupt. How does that make any sense?

And the fairness doctrine isn't going to shut down anybody, rather it'll introduce a new view so that we, the consumer, can have more to choose from.


There's a distinct Politburo ring to the Obama administration proposal to move the census from the Commerce Department to the control of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, perhaps the most partisan politician to work in the White House in a decade, where claims of executive privilege could mask mischief.

Aside from the ridiculousness of the opening statement, I have one argument for him:

http://losestadoslatinos.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/karl-rove-sm.jpg



Mr. Obama worked for years as a community organizer applying the tactics of dyed-in-the-wool socialist Saul Alinsky and he was a faithful 20-year parishioner of the Rev. Jeremiah "G.. d... America" Wright.

blah blah blah

I'm sorry dude, but that article was ridiculous. Basically the same crap used during the entire election cycle which didn't work then.

Now that the election cycle is over, I was hoping we'd here real arguments and solutions from the right and not more mind-numbing drivel. But that's my fault, I was expecting way to much from people who's popularity comes from anti-intellectualism and little else.

Oh, and just to do away with the "slippery slope" hogwash here's the socialist Teddy Roosevelt (not to be confused with his communist nephew):

"A heavy progressive tax upon a very large fortune is in no way such a tax upon thrift or industry as a like would be on a small fortune. No advantage comes either to the country as a whole or to the individuals inheriting the money by permitting the transmission in their entirety of the enormous fortunes which would be affected by such a tax; and as an incident to its function of revenue raising, such a tax would help to preserve a measurable equality of opportunity for the people of the generations growing to manhood."

"No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar's worth of service rendered, not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective, a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

Seriously, American "socialism" is nothing new, and it seems to me that Mr Hyman needs to read some history not written by Michael Savage.

[rosie]

I figured you would like the quote that i put into my message.. wasnt going for any type of response. Just figured somebody here would find it of interest. If its so hard to just have a normal conversation with you guys, how do you expect anybody to want to listen and learn from you?<br/><br/> It's not that it is so "hard" to have a conversation with "us" (intellectuals? communists? humans?), we (if i may speak for the group) just want people to engage everyone (by everyone I mean EVERYONE, not just those of the leftist persuasion) with an educated statement. I understand you were only trying to post a positive and exciting comment, but to post a link to an article by someone who has constantly made fun and opposed the left is almost a slap in the face. Unintentional as it was, the fact of the matter remains. I really hope this doesn't put a halt on your interest in the movement. Check it out! A good start is to read "Marx for Beginners". You can also go to the liturature and learning sections of the forum. Good luck in your quest to understand!
Peace, love, music...
-Rosie

[synthesis]

This is a terrible article all around. However, I do feel sorry for the author - with that last name, elementary school must have been hell, but that doesn't excuse a travesty of journalism like this.


Exhibit No. 1 is President Barack Obama (http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=Barack+Obama)'s claim that "the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back into life."Rather than provide tax and regulatory relief for businesses that would actually jumpstart the economy, Mr. Obama's $787.2 billion "stimulus package" is crammed full of wasteful spending measures that hew to a social engineering agenda that includes government central planning at its very core.

Just stupid. Has he read the bill? The stimulus is composed of tax breaks, corporate welfare and more money for things that have always been "centrally planned," like schools and shit.


Exhibit No. 2 is Mr. Obama's grossly naive call for universal health care. His failed Health and Human Services Secretary nominee, Tom Daschle, promoted a U.K.-style of socialized medicine. I experienced firsthand the U.K.'s National Health Service, an appalling system of rationed health care. Not widely reported is the U.K.'s flourishing trade in private health care outside the NHS that does not require consumers to wait months or years for routine tests and treatments that people in America can receive on a same-day basis.


The author takes a "C-" and turns it into an "F". Not the same thing. Public health care hasn't "failed" just because it has been implemented terribly with inadequate resources.




Exhibit No. 3 is the Democratic effort to silence critics. Michigan Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow, whose husband was an executive with the now-bankrupt Air America liberal talk radio operation, has joined a growing list of Democratic elected officials who have vowed to disable the few conservative broadcast media outlets by imposing the inappropriately-named "Fairness Doctrine." Sens. Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Tom Harkin and John Kerry have joined House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former President Bill Clinton among others in vowing action that would effectively shut down criticism of their brand of government.


What a bunch of wild-eyed, baseless bullshit. The Fairness Doctrine isn't new, it was in place from 1949 until the Reagan years, when deregulation allowed a handful of tycoons to buy up the airwaves. You can't "silence the opposition" with a Fairness Doctrine, anyways, you can only equally distribute the megaphones.



Another proposal Mr. Obama is expected to push in the coming weeks is "card check" the elimination of the secret ballot in labor union voting that would allow union thugs to coerce and intimidate workers.


The proposal is not pushing "card check," it's intended to force employers to recognize unions if a majority of them choose to organize, and advocates public voting as a means of proving a majority. The "secret ballot" option is still there if 30% of the members want it.




It has now become fashionable for America (http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=United+States)'s socialists to come out of the closet. Elected officials advocating ideological viewpoints that would have elicited derision and laughter only a few months ago are now emboldened to openly promote socialist policies. They feel safe because America's chief executive has embraced an agenda that is quickly moving America toward socialism in which the goal is to have all power vested in the state and any dissent is quashed.


Now I'm starting to wish that the "Fairness Doctrine" would actually do what this guy says it will. Jesus Christ, this is as worthless as it gets.

[ZeroNowhere]

Oh dear.
Anyways, in other news, Bernie Sanders is now calling for 'European-style Socialism', and praising Sweden and the like as "socialist". I am hoping that nobody here still calls him a socialist.

[John Lenin]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20080619/cartoon20080619.gif

[MMIKEYJ]

Oh dear.
Anyways, in other news, Bernie Sanders is now calling for 'European-style Socialism', and praising Sweden and the like as "socialist". I am hoping that nobody here still calls him a socialist.
I dont know what he is,... But Ive seen that guy rail afainst the federal reserve and bullshit banking... thats a plus in my book!

[Dimentio]

Basically, the time for socialists is now... strike while the iron is hot so to speak.





http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/01/the-new-socialists/

Obama is right-wing, from our point-of-view.

[MMIKEYJ]

Obama is right-wing, from our point-of-view.
I can understand that.. Hes also down wing compared to you and me as well.

[RGacky3]

The news will always paint Socialism in the European social-democrayc light.

The thing they all forget is the very basis of Socialism, PRIVATE PROPERTY IS UNJUSTIFIED AND SO ARE HIARCHIES ECONOMIC OR OTHERWISE. Its NOT about giving people free rides, its not about helping those who dont work as hard, the whole basis of Socialism is that Capitalism is a tyrannical system, not that its too rough on people. Socialism is much better represented by radical labor unions than hack politicians trying to pass what they call socialist laws. Socialism starts in the workplace, in the union halls, not in congress.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I for one would love to see a Norwegian model over the mess we have now. Too bad that ain't happening anytime soon.