African internationalism; misguided, reactionary, or progressive?

[Yazman]

A few discussions in other threads as well as long conversations IRL with a lot of my Sudanese friends and work mates has got me thinking about this. As a disclaimer, note that I am neither african nor american so I'm not attempting to speak for either ethnicity, I am just voicing some concerns and questions here in an attempt to learn more/gain a consensus from RL.

In the United States, a lot of African internationalist movements or movements that incorporate parts of this ideology like Uhuru, rastafarianism, and even in hip hop consider concepts of 'african unity'. Sometimes they reject being 'american' and simply identify as 'african' rather than 'african-american' and that by way of their heritage claim to be a part of 'african culture' or identity. Something I have noticed however is that these people are often many generations away, to the extent that they have little if any real connection to the mainland africans that actually live there and often have little understanding of african cultures or any real knowledge of them.

Something I have noticed is that, in the city in Australia I am from, I work with and have a lot of friends who are refugees from Sudan (I do a lot of stuff to help them get adjusted in the city in general). When I first started research on black nationalism in the US a few years ago I'd learned of this stuff and last year I ended up discussing it: Most, if not all, of the politically active Sudanese comrades from this community (and even a few Liberians) generally express a strong distaste for this and some of them even tell me they think its offensive in a pretty strong way that people they see as simply "americans" would identify themselves as "africans" when they are not seen as being african by a lot of the politically active africans (as far as I have learnt from them). Some of them even went so far as to call it cultural domination by a foreign culture, which is particularly interesting given that some of the comrades I've discussed this with are civil war vets.

From my own view there seems to be a conflict of interests here that represent themselves and I guess come down to identity politics on the american side. I haven't had a chance to actually discuss this difference of opinions on what constitutes being "african" with an american though; I have only been able to discuss this with sudanese comrades, so I'm sort of "in the dark" as to what reaction black nationalists might have to african rejection of their movement.

Does anybody have any thoughts? I guess I'm not really trying to argue a point in particular here, I'm just summarising findings I've had after researching black nationalism in the US and then discussing it with african refugees. That they would reject such movements and see them as cultural domination is interesting to me.

[MarxSchmarx]

You should ask these people whether they want their children to grow up to be a typical "Australian" or "American" adolescent, or if they would rather have them imbued with African values. In my experience, when push comes to shove, even these Africans are reluctant to abandon their African values that are difficult to realize in the west.

What we have to understand is that the black population in America is basically a diaspora population. They are, to a large extent, "shunted" from mainstream American society. As such, they have developed many indigenous institutions, as well as, incredibly, maintained certain cultural values through centuries of what is tantamount to exile. This is not too different from many Australians, for example, holding pride in distinctly Northern European traditions like Christmas.

It is only that Africans in the US have, remarkably, maintained many African cultural values despite centuries of attempts to wipe these out.

True, African Americans have the luxury of looking nostalgically at an "African homeland", whereas many Africans, especially those who emigrated to developed countries, are eager to leave behind many of the painful aspects of African society and embrace their new home.

There is nothing wrong with this view, but I agree with the gist of your observation that an "Africanism" is largely a luxury of first worlders. However, at the same time, insofar as it involves largely benign elements of cultural identity (like the food one eats at home) I see little reason to denounce it as "identity politics" and in fact we should welcome it for its pluralistic potential.

[redSHARP]

i think the whole "reactionary, misguided, or progressive" question, depends on the group. the new black panthers are a reactionary racists. some groups try to use pan-African as a way to connect with roots, while others use it as a way to better understand history, culture and the world in general. it can be misguided, but it is a mixed bag.

[ev]

wait.. what?
how is hip hop related to african unity?
oh on the subject of music and african americans, why are there so many in rap music, whats wrong with a white blond woman rapping? i think that whilst a sense of social identity is important, they shouldn't see these hardcore US rappers rapping about guns, drivebys and cocaine and be like "yeah boy, thats my culture" - I respect members of the african community who dont buy into those fucking stereotypes made by big companies owned by pasty old white men.

[Bilbo Baggins]

wait.. what?
how is hip hop related to african unity?
oh on the subject of music and african americans, why are there so many in rap music, whats wrong with a white blond woman rapping? i think that whilst a sense of social identity is important, they shouldn't see these hardcore US rappers rapping about guns, drivebys and cocaine and be like "yeah boy, thats my culture" - I respect members of the african community who dont buy into those fucking stereotypes made by big companies owned by pasty old white men.

Today, it most certainly is not when you consider the extent that it has been "hijacked" by(white owned) corporate America so now all hip-hop does is keep parroting the consumerist, capitalist,"Bling Bling me myself and I" thing over and over again-Anglo/Saxon economic propaganda at its worst!

[Raúl Duke]

When I first started research on black nationalism in the US a few years ago I'd learned of this stuff and last year I ended up discussing it: Most, if not all, of the politically active Sudanese comrades from this community (and even a few Liberians) generally express a strong distaste for this and some of them even tell me they think its offensive in a pretty strong way that people they see as simply "americans" would identify themselves as "africans" when they are not seen as being african by a lot of the politically active africans (as far as I have learnt from them).This doesn't only happen with "African-Americans", in Puerto Rico we have a somewhat similar (but to a lesser degree) relation with people of the New York Puerto Rican diaspora. In Puerto Rico we call them "nuyericans" and they are considered distinct from us.

Actually, they are distinct from us (some people crudely say that they "can't speak neither English nor Spanish") and in PR not many people understand why they feel so proud, more then the people in/born in the island, about Puerto Rico. They are considered "more proud of being Puerto Rican (something that no Puerto Rican would actually say about them per se due to possible cultural differences) then the actual Puerto Ricans."

This probably also occurs with other long-placed immigrant communities, they begin to differentiate. The Cubans in Miami are probably not much like the Cubans from Cuba, Italian-Americans aren't much like Italians, etc.