Constructive dismissal

[Bitter Ashes]

Has anybody else think they have been a victim of this?
About 2 years ago I came out at work. I'd always been a hard worker and my evaluations by my shift manager reflected that.
On the same day I was out though I was called to the store manager's office "for a chat". I'd never spoken to the store manager before this. The manager was decieding to give me a lecture about keeping my personal life and work life seperate, for (quote) "No reason in particular". While he was saying all this, he and the personel manager (the two were inseperable), just kept staring at me with a very angry look on thier faces. He finished up by saying that I'd be changing department the next shift.
After this I was moved around from department to department on a weekly basis. Obviously I never got time to be properly trained in these places or get enough experiance doing it to get good at it. Meanwhile, the store manager was making it a habit to seek me out at every possible moment and reffer to me as "young man" (bear in mind he had NEVER talked to me before i was out).
I stuck with it for about another four months before I became ill. I couldnt walk and I was in constant pain with a condition that it was very difficult to explain. So I phoned in to inform work that I was going to need some time to recover. They insisted that I rang in every day, even days I didnt normaly work. Each time I rang in, I had to explain everything from scratch and why I couldnt do anything at work that day. It took about half an hour each and every day and as I said, I wasnt comfortable talking about it anyway.
I tried that for about 3 weeks before telling them that I'd ring in on a weekly basis instead. I was warned there would be "consequences", especially because I had now used my allowed number of sick days (how ridiculous a concept!). Two days later I got a phone call from work demanding I went there immediatly. I explained that I couldnt walk more than a few feet, so there was no way I could get there, although if somebody wanted to drop by my house then that was fine. They werent having any of it and I just had to tell them it would have to be postphoned. I was warned again that there would be "consequences". Two days later I was told to come in again. The same thing happened. So I phoned USDAW, my union, they said that they'd send somebody over to pick me up and take me to the store for this meeting and they'd let the store know I'd be attending.
I did get to the store with the union's help, but it was agonising. I've never been in such pain in my life and I had tears streaming down my face during the whole ordeal of bieng moved so much in that condition. In the meeting I was told I was bieng sacked for the following:
-Failing to phone in on a daily basis
-Failing to maintain professional standards on the new departments I was allocated to
-Failing to attend my first disciplinary meeting (the one two days earlier)
-Using more than my allocated number of sick days
-Reffering to the company in a negative light on my Myspace blog (yes, they really had been stalking me on the internet!)
I was also told to remove all refferences to the store in question from my personal blog on Myspace, or face prosecution for slander/libel.
I was gobsmacked and turned to the union rep and asked her if they could do this and she said that they could "get away with it pretty easily". I did consider taking the store to court, but seeing as though only 3% of discrimination cases in the UK ever are ruled in the prosecution's favour, I really didnt think it was worth the time and money.

[Pogue]

I'm in a similar situation. I've been told conflicting info (your very polite to customers, not polite enough, you dont communciate with colleagues, you talk to them too much), told I'm gonna be made redundant cos I don't need the job cos i'm young etc, etc, etc.

Its managerial bullshit mate, the reality of the workplace. Its also very common and hard to fight back against, which is why we need unions, strong unions.

[rednordman]

-Reffering to the company in a negative light on my Myspace blog (yes, they really had been stalking me on the interne!!thats messed up and to be frank, rather scary. Are we really becoming a survalience state?

[rednordman]

This all reeks of double standards does it not! They can have blacklists of employees and share this information between companies. Yet you are accused of slating your company on myspace, and your threatened with your job. Its a discrace. In fact it even makes me wonder about the security and validity of references anymore. Who knows what they say?

[Dean]

I did get to the store with the union's help, but it was agonising. I've never been in such pain in my life and I had tears streaming down my face during the whole ordeal of bieng moved so much in that condition. In the meeting I was told I was bieng sacked for the following:

This whole post is totally fucked and I am ashamed that there are fellow human beings like that in the world. My heart goes out to you comrade; may you have better luck at your next job.

[Bitter Ashes]

This all reeks of double standards does it not! They can have blacklists of employees and share this information between companies. Yet you are accused of slating your company on myspace, and your threatened with your job. Its a discrace. In fact it even makes me wonder about the security and validity of references anymore. Who knows what they say?
Yeah. It was actualy more than just threatening my job; it was actualy one of the things they fired me for and they were planning on taking me to court for it too. All I'd said was that I had a crush on one of the girls I worked with and described how the company's sickness procedures were effecting me. Both of which were drawn attention to and it was said that despite it bieng an unnamed myspace blog that I'd invited nobody to view, it was damaging the store's reputation.
I think I have to do this now...
THE COMPANY WAS WM MORRISONS! They also sell hairy chickens with tails!!!
*takes a deep breath*
Since then I've not actualy been able to get another job in retail. I've had plenty of interviews, but once it gets to the refferences it all fizzles out. Maybe they are passing more on than the legaly required "x worked here from y to z. thank you. goodbye" :confused:

[rednordman]

*takes a deep breath*
Since then I've not actualy been able to get another job in retail. I've had plenty of interviews, but once it gets to the refferences it all fizzles out. Maybe they are passing more on than the legaly required "x worked here from y to z. thank you. goodbye" :confused:I know that it may sound a bit conspiracy theorist to some, but i am seriously beggining believe this is the case. Infact, I'll tell you a short story.
After finishing uni, i could not get a job in what i wanted to do or any job for love nor money (suprise suprise). I had all the relevant qualifications for job and went to plenty of interviews to boot. No luck. After a while a shop assistants job which i had applied for off the cuff (not the job i was qualified for but just wanted work) came up and worked there for about half a year. It was that shit i left. Then about 2 months later, i got an interview for a much more suitable job. The interview went really well and i felt that i had a chance) As my employment experience was not that vast, I had to use this former shop as my reference. The shop just happens to be down the road so my familly still occasionally shops there.
One day my mum came back from the shop saying that the shop had had a call of the prosective job which i had applied for asking for a reference. Obviously i was excited as this generally means that there is a very good chance that you have the job.. I heard nothing.
After speaking with my ex-managers, they promised that they gave me a 'sparkling' reference, but I am really starting to wonder whether or not they slated me, and told my mother about the reference just to be spitefull and build up my hopes, so the dissapointment was more intense. I mean isnt it illigal to tell an ex-employee that you have been asked for a reference in the first place? and that posed the other question..why ask for a reference for someone who you are not going to give the job to anyway?

[Dean]

Since then I've not actualy been able to get another job in retail. I've had plenty of interviews, but once it gets to the refferences it all fizzles out. Maybe they are passing more on than the legaly required "x worked here from y to z. thank you. goodbye" :confused:

What? seriously, do not give them as a reference. I only give my past job references if A. they won't actually call them or B. I left the job on good terms. Don't ever act on the assumption that a capitalist entity will act within legal or moral limits.

[Anarchyandpeace]

A nightmare story. Hope it all works out for you mate. :( But hey, everything happens for a reason. Better things in store and all that. :)

[LOLseph Stalin]

That sucks. The only thing I can recommend is to never bring up your politics while in a workplace. I'm very careful not to. With politics like ours we could easily be let go.

[Invincible Summer]

The situation in the OP is fucking disgusting.

All that bullshit makes it seem to me that they had another reason why they fired you, but won't disclose it.


I haven't been in a situation that extreme, but when I used to work at a grocery store, I overheard some of the management saying "We can get rid of some of our grocery clerks but not the cashiers." I was sort of sketched out, but didn't think too much of it.
A few weeks later, I was sick and couldn't make it into work - I called to let them know and then they told me that it didn't matter b/c I was fired. When I inquired, the management told me that I was "unprofessional" and that "it's unacceptabe." When I demanded to know what "it" was, and that I had never taken any other sick days or missed work, they kept avoiding telling me and basically kept repeating the same things over and over.
I suspect they just hired me for the holiday season and didn't tell me it was a seasonal job.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The fact that they were apperently stalking his myspace makes me cringe. Seems like once at work, always at work...

[rednordman]

The fact that they were apperently stalking his myspace makes me cringe. Seems like once at work, always at work... To be honest, I really struggle to see the whole logic of a company doing this in the first place. I mean what has it got to do with them anyway. Do they (morrisons-big uk shopping chain) really believe that the whole of the world is going to read the topic openers blog and stop shopping at morrisons? Because in a way, by thier actions, this is what they are suggesting.
I think there has actually been a bit in the news in the last 2 years about companies doing this. Would need a bit of rectifiying, as at the time I only heard brief snippets of what these employers where doing. One such example was looking at an applicants myspace/facebook page, when deciding to employ them or not.
The thing that shocks me most is how compliant the british public are in these sort of issues. Their like sheep in head lights. It is a blantant invasion of privacy from a private company, and NOT from the government. To get this from the Government is one thing, but from a PRIVATE company!? What gives them the right? There not exactly stalking for national defence are they? - Its almost like capitalism is the new Religion, and the private company has the devine right to do absolutley anything to serve their vain selfish individualist interests. And by the sound of this thread - I really mean absolutley anything.

[Bitter Ashes]

Yeah. I was gobsmacked when I found out about they'd done that. They handed me the printouts at the disciplinary meeting and they asked me what I thought to it. I looked back at them and basicly said that it was none of thier buisness how I spend my free time and what I wrote in my diary. They responded by telling me that by keeping my diary on the internet it was a form of negative advertisment. I think I got a bit annoyed there because I'd not directed anyone at work towards my diary. My managers been had actively on Myspace looking for my profile and trawling thier way through a year's worth of entries in the blog to find those entries. I suppose I should have locked it, but at the end of the day, I never imagined anyone bieng that intrested in my personal life to go stalking me on the net.
Oh and not "his myspace" ;)

[rednordman]

Yeah. I was gobsmacked when I found out about they'd done that. They handed me the printouts at the disciplinary meeting and they asked me what I thought to it. I looked back at them and basicly said that it was none of thier buisness how I spend my free time and what I wrote in my diary. They responded by telling me that by keeping my diary on the internet it was a form of negative advertisment. I think I got a bit annoyed there because I'd not directed anyone at work towards my diary. My managers been had actively on Myspace looking for my profile and trawling thier way through a year's worth of entries in the blog to find those entries. I suppose I should have locked it, but at the end of the day, I never imagined anyone bieng that intrested in my personal life to go stalking me on the net.
Oh and not "his myspace" ;)W.T.F I mean that they handed you print outs of pages from 'your' myspace?! Surely this cannot be totally legal, can it? Im pretty sure if your a member of a good union they should save you, but it still cannot make up for what has actually happened if that is the case.

[cyu]

The only thing I can recommend is to never bring up your politics while in a workplace. I'm very careful not to. With politics like ours we could easily be let go.

Well, if you were really convincing, it could be a different story. I was surprised by the following from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Rocker

"Although Rocker is unlikely to have grasped all of the political and philosophical implications of what he read, he became a socialist and regularly discussed his ideas with others. His employer became the first person he converted to socialism."

[Sean]

-Reffering to the company in a negative light on my Myspace blog (yes, they really had been stalking me on the internet!)
I was also told to remove all refferences to the store in question from my personal blog on Myspace, or face prosecution for slander/libel.
This should suprise noone these days and I'm sick of saying it to people but things you put on the internet are there forever in some form and accessible by anyone with even half a brain. Seperate your online life and real life as much as is possible. My ex boss (well the girl covering for him) used to check what time at night I was still awake via msn and tell me to go to bed to get up in the morning for work! If the company is WM Morrisons, then again you prove this point because this thread comes up high on a simple google of wm morrisons slander myspace, which they will do to check up on what you are saying about it or if you have removed it, and of course find you here. Who cares? Your next employer; companies will not hire someone who badmouths their previous employer as they expect the same treatment regardless of the circumstances.

[Demogorgon]

There is not a great deal you can do about them E-stalking you I am afraid, but some of the other things they have done are definitely illegal and you should visit Citizen's Advice to see about how you can deal with them. You have been harassed and victimised for your sexuality/gender (sorry, I am not sure from your post whether you are transgendered or not) and in UK law, you must be compensated for this. It can seem difficult to go through the process, but if these idiots get away with it once, they will do it again and have to be dealt with.

[DJFreiheit]

The title of this thread is Constructive Dismissal. Im afraid a lot of the posters here are way off the mark in understanding what Constructive dismissal is.

In UK employment law this is where the employee leaves their job due to the employer's behaviour. For example, the employer has made the employee's life very difficult and the employee feels that they cannot remain in their job. When this happens the employee's resignation is treated as an actual dismissal by the employer, so the employee can claim Unfair Dismissal. The employer's actions must have amounted to a fundamental breach of contract.

Examples of Constructive Dismissal can include:
1. Not supporting managers in difficult work situations.
2. Harassing or humiliating staff, particularly in front of other less senior staff.
3. Victimising or targeting particular members of staff.
4. Changing the employee's job content or terms without consultation.
5. Making a significant change in the employee's job location at short notice.
6. Falsely accusing an employee of misconduct such as theft or of being incapable of carrying out their job.
7. Excessive demotion or disciplining of employees. An employee can resign over one serious incident or due to the build up of a number of incidents. However, the employee must resign soon after the incident in order to be able to rely upon it. Generally the actions of the employer must be a serious breach of contract.

Constructive dismissal claims to an Employment tribunal in the UK are very difficult to win.

[rosie]

That is complete crap. I'm sorry that happened to you. It's situations like this (not to use you as an example, but there are many discrimination cases like this) that explain how exploitative capitalism really is. Most people can't see this, i say they should be helped to see it. We should do something to alert local papers (maybe the papers youth favors?) to this kind worker abuse.

[Bitter Ashes]

The thing is, if you ever go to court, with a serious case against a big company like WM Morrisons, it'll make the tabloids. The public loves a scandal. Which means your name and photographs will be splashed around everywhere.
The end effect is that the bourgeois close ranks and ensure that you never work again for as long as capitalism lasts. No union in the world would be able to help somebody then. :(
I guess it takes more guts than I've got to take a company like this to court.

[cyu]

...but once somebody does get blacklisted (even if by accident), then they have little left to lose. They would be open to further radicalization. If the blacklisted formed an organization themselves, instead of letting each be victimized individually, then they could potentially be much more effective than a similarly sized group of non-blacklisted people who are afraid to do anything.

[This isn't to say you have to immediately take the company to court - the key is finding organizations so you don't have to be victimized as an individual. After all, the corporation isn't one individual either.]

[PRC-UTE]

I'm surprised there weren't more yes votes. Voted yes myself anyway

[Bitter Ashes]

...but once somebody does get blacklisted (even if by accident), then they have little left to lose. They would be open to further radicalization. If the blacklisted formed an organization themselves, instead of letting each be victimized individually, then they could potentially be much more effective than a similarly sized group of non-blacklisted people who are afraid to do anything.

[This isn't to say you have to immediately take the company to court - the key is finding organizations so you don't have to be victimized as an individual. After all, the corporation isn't one individual either.]
This is very true. I suspect that I'm already on such a blacklist seeing as though I've had such difficulty finding full time work since, but was fine before. Is there any way I can check?

[Rjevan]

Oh wow, I have only now seen this thread but what happened to you there and how you were treated just because of saying that you had a crush on a girl there and that you dislike the sickness procedures is unbelievably disgusting! Besides of the things you said about it was just on a myspace blog I thought we had still some basic freedom of speech here in Europe and I wouldn't have thought that a little criticism about your company could get you into such a treatment. But obviously I was too naive...

I never was in such a situation since I'm still going to school but that is exactly the reason why I avoid sites like myspace because the huge amount of personal datas I would have to pubilish there make it far too easy for them to get information about me I maybe don't wnat them to know. I'm very careful about non-conform things I write outside of RevLeft which could be directly linked to me.

I know from acquaintances that those blacklists are no myth and that companies inform each other about "subversive elements" but only the companies have access to these information, there's no official list on e.g. the internet.

I feel with you and hope things are getting better for you, Scaeme! :(

[Dóchas]

ye thats really messed up. i hope things work out for you but im not surprised that they were checking up with you on myspace. most companies do that before they interview people.

did your employer know about your politics or did they just not like you because if they fired you on ground of your politics then you can bring them to court but usually they find another reason to let you go.

im pretty sure there is a blacklist and there was a link to an article here on revleft a while ago but i can find it

[pastradamus]

Yeah. It was actualy more than just threatening my job; it was actualy one of the things they fired me for and they were planning on taking me to court for it too. All I'd said was that I had a crush on one of the girls I worked with and described how the company's sickness procedures were effecting me. Both of which were drawn attention to and it was said that despite it bieng an unnamed myspace blog that I'd invited nobody to view, it was damaging the store's reputation.
I think I have to do this now...
THE COMPANY WAS WM MORRISONS! They also sell hairy chickens with tails!!!
*takes a deep breath*
Since then I've not actualy been able to get another job in retail. I've had plenty of interviews, but once it gets to the refferences it all fizzles out. Maybe they are passing more on than the legaly required "x worked here from y to z. thank you. goodbye" :confused:


Constructive dismissal is the NUMBER 1 form of attacking a worker during this recession. I totally feel for you man. When I was Union representive we were inundated with people in simular situations to yourself.Now Im extremely well-read on matters of legality concerning workers rights - however Im not sure of legislation outside Ireland and I can only say this from an Irish legislative opinion but Firstly I will say this......

1: The reference. You are entitled to enquire about the reference. Consult maybe a Union official or a citizen information office to find out more.DONT FORGET ABOUT THIS ISSUE. Dont just hope it will blow over because it wont. You worked in an industry which you were skilled at and it is unacceptable that they wont give you the referrence you deserve. It is written in both the EU and UN charter of human rights that you have a right to work.

2: If I can make myself clear here scaeme....
Are you suggesting that the Management not only went onto the internet and checked out your myspace but officially used it against you as a dismissal? Because under the ICM (Londons institute of commercial management) directive that is completely Illegal. NOBODY you work with has the right to be invasive in your private life without your permission. Moreover its also called stalking - which is illegal and again THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT CRITICIZING A COMPANY.

Those fucking assholes deserve to burn and I think you should persue the matter further, firstly by percuring a copy or a report of the reference, this does not need to be written the recipient can simply tell you what was said.

Solidarity brother.

[Bitter Ashes]

I didnt actualy critise the company in my blog until after they sacked me. It was just put that my "attitude wasnt compliant on the image that the store wanted to project". Now there's a can of worms huh?
They do actualy have it all recorded I suppose as it was an official disiplinary/dismissal.

[pastradamus]

I didnt actualy critise the company in my blog until after they sacked me. It was just put that my "attitude wasnt compliant on the image that the store wanted to project".

Petty non-sensical irritance from the companies persprective. This is against the law on EU legislative grounds that Im sure of. However when im working tomorrow and I'll remind myself to dig up the relevant legislation. But its simply not a good enough reason for sacking (and lets call it what it is please people). Total bullshit. Though the main defense the store can work up is that you were representing them by working - which I feel any judge would decide against ( keeping in mind that I work in Ireland and not the UK).

[Poison]

Group hug?

*holds out arms*

I may have missed it but this won't be tossing you out on the street or anything, right? With the economy being as bad as it is?