About John Lennon

[punisa]

I've read many things about John and many lefties criticize him, some even call him a "fool".
This doesn't seem very fair considering that almost all popular musicians never showed any interest in socialism, dare not to sing about it.

Lennon wrote one of my favourite songs, if I'd make my lefty TOP 10 (yeah, it sounds cheesy) it'd probably be up there - "Working class Hero".

I've just uploaded a cover version of the mentioned song with a video you just might like :lol:
The link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7H1rVibuMY


Anyway, besides his songs that are obviously left oriented and my dubious self advertising. Could someone fill in the gap on his apparent funding of Trockist groups and his overall engagement in the movement?
I was puzzled over where to put this, music, learning?
But I guess learning is fine, hope we learn something new :)
Please me give me some good stuff, as I know an army of John fans who'd make excellent lefties :laugh:

[ashaman1324]

lennon was a marxist for a while when he was big with the beatles, sorry i cant be much more informative than that, my knowledge on lennon is fairly limited.. try wikipedia or a beatles fan site for more info

[LOLseph Stalin]

Judging by some of his music, I would say that John Lennon was definitely left leaning at one time. His song "Imagine" is all about a Marxist society afterall. It's funny bacause my friends listen to that song, not even realizing what it's about. :confused:

[punisa]

Judging by some of his music, I would say that John Lennon was definitely left leaning at one time. His song "Imagine" is all about a Marxist society afterall. It's funny bacause my friends listen to that song, not even realizing what it's about. :confused:

Yes, "Imagine", "WClass Hero" and "Power To The People" are just some to mention.
After the break up of Beatles he was mainly pacifist, anti-war. But this is also something that belongs to the lefts side of the political spectrum.

This is just a bit about politics from wiki: "
On 23 March 1973, Lennon was ordered to leave the U.S. within 60 days, while Ono was granted permanent residence.
In response, Lennon and Ono held a press conference at the New York chapter of the American Bar Association on 1 April 1973 to announce the formation of the conceptual state of "Nutopia"; a place with "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people", and all of its inhabitants would be ambassadors.
The Lennons asked for political asylum in the U.S. while waving the white flag of Nutopia; two white handkerchiefs."

That "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people" sounds awfully familiar right?
I think that Lennon was well aware of the red scare and anti-socialist politics, it was cold war after all.
Coming out as a Marxist would get him killed, ironically it actually did.

Could this be another planned out move to introduce socialism to US population by actually not mentioning the S word?
You're probably familiar with the recent movie Zeitgeist:Addendum which tries to do the same.

US working class could easily relate with common unity and goals, but unfortunately anything that sounds left still scares them, decades of propaganda did a very good job as it seems.

[Some Red Guy]

Yes, "Imagine", "WClass Hero" and "Power To The People" are just some to mention.
After the break up of Beatles he was mainly pacifist, anti-war. But this is also something that belongs to the lefts side of the political spectrum.

This is just a bit about politics from wiki: "
On 23 March 1973, Lennon was ordered to leave the U.S. within 60 days, while Ono was granted permanent residence.
In response, Lennon and Ono held a press conference at the New York chapter of the American Bar Association on 1 April 1973 to announce the formation of the conceptual state of "Nutopia"; a place with "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people", and all of its inhabitants would be ambassadors.
The Lennons asked for political asylum in the U.S. while waving the white flag of Nutopia; two white handkerchiefs."

That "no land, no boundaries, no passports, only people" sounds awfully familiar right?
I think that Lennon was well aware of the red scare and anti-socialist politics, it was cold war after all.
Coming out as a Marxist would get him killed, ironically it actually did.

Could this be another planned out move to introduce socialism to US population by actually not mentioning the S word?
You're probably familiar with the recent movie Zeitgeist:Addendum which tries to do the same.

US working class could easily relate with common unity and goals, but unfortunately anything that sounds left still scares them, decades of propaganda did a very good job as it seems.


You're right there. He was a subtle leftist (maybe what got him killed) and I like those particular songs. There's a thread about Zeitgeist Addendum already by the way. What happened to Nutopia anyways?

And on an unrelated note; You wrote those songs like your avatar says? I saw them on sovmusic I think.

[punisa]

You're right there. He was a subtle leftist (maybe what got him killed) and I like those particular songs. There's a thread about Zeitgeist Addendum already by the way. What happened to Nutopia anyways?

And on an unrelated note; You wrote those songs like your avatar says? I saw them on sovmusic I think.

Yep, I know about the Zeitgeist thread, I was just drawing some correlation :)
I guess the whole concept of Nutopia died with him, while I doubt he was totally serious about making it a reality, it was indeed another clever idea to make people think.

Did you guys see the cover for his album "power to the people"? Traditional socialist salute, at least it was often used in my ex country.

http://www.rarebeatles.com/sleeves/solops/spsjpowr.jpg

About unrelated note: Yes, all those songs are written and performed by me, the only ones I haven't wrote are those labeled with "cover", like the Working Class Hero that was written by J.Lennon and some others..
Glad they spread around :)

[Killfacer]

Surely he was a hippy? Listen to the lyrics in "Imagine" they're all nice cosy love everyone stuff.

I like the guy.

[Hit The North]

He went through his hippie phase, "All You Need Is Love" through to the bagism and bed-in for peace protests. By the early seventies, though, his politics had hardened into a more militant stance, as shown on his Sometime In New York City album and the benefit gigs he did at the time.

The best telling of this period is in the film The U.S. vs. John Lennon, if you can find it.

[Nakidana]

John Lennon definitely had Marxist tendencies. There's a long interview with him in "Street Fighting Years" by Tariq Ali where he shows clear support for worker power. Here's an extract:

"T.A.: What did you think was the reason for the success of your sort of music?

J.L.: Well, at the time it was thought that the workers had broken through, but I realise in retrospect that it's the same phoney deal they gave the blacks, it was just like they allowed blacks to be runners or boxers or entertainers. That's the choice they allow you - now the outlet is being a popstar, which is really what I'm saying on the album in Working Class Hero. As I told Rolling Stone, it's the same people who have the power. the class system didn't change one little bit. Of course there are a lot of people walking around with long hair now and some trendy middle-class kids in pretty clothes. But nothing changed except that we all dressed up a bit, leaving the same bastards running everything.

...

T.A. How do you think we can destroy the capitalist system here in Britain John?

J.L. I think only by making the workers aware of the really unhappy situaton they're in, breaking the dream they are surrounded by. ..."

[punisa]

John Lennon definitely had Marxist tendencies. There's a long interview with him in "Street Fighting Years" by Tariq Ali where he shows clear support for worker power. Here's an extract:

"T.A.: What did you think was the reason for the success of your sort of music?

J.L.: Well, at the time it was thought that the workers had broken through, but I realise in retrospect that it's the same phoney deal they gave the blacks, it was just like they allowed blacks to be runners or boxers or entertainers. That's the choice they allow you - now the outlet is being a popstar, which is really what I'm saying on the album in Working Class Hero. As I told Rolling Stone, it's the same people who have the power. the class system didn't change one little bit. Of course there are a lot of people walking around with long hair now and some trendy middle-class kids in pretty clothes. But nothing changed except that we all dressed up a bit, leaving the same bastards running everything.

...

T.A. How do you think we can destroy the capitalist system here in Britain John?

J.L. I think only by making the workers aware of the really unhappy situaton they're in, breaking the dream they are surrounded by. ..."

Great stuff :thumbup1:

[punisa]

The best telling of this period is in the film The U.S. vs. John Lennon, if you can find it.

Full length movie, The U.S. vs. John Lennon, on Google Videos - watch it here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=777046699234389996&ei=I-emSdncG4u22wLvvqGpBg&q=The+U.S.+vs.+John+Lennon&hl=en&dur=3) :)

[bellyscratch]

I'm getting more and more into Lennon recently. I've had the album 'Imagine' for ages but only started getting other albums in the last few weeks.

[Random Precision]

Check this out:

The Lost John Lennon Interview (http://www.counterpunch.org/lennon12082005.html) by Tariq Ali and Robin Blackburn

[Pawn Power]

Here is an interview some random 14 year old did with John Lennon is '69. I Met The Walrus. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmR0V6s3NKk&eurl=http://vodpod.com/watch/855973-i-met-the-walrus?pod=buzzflash) Some parts of it are incoherent.

[Nakidana]

Check this out:

The Lost John Lennon Interview (http://www.counterpunch.org/lennon12082005.html) by Tariq Ali and Robin Blackburn

Yup, that's the one. :thumbup:

[KurtFF8]

Did he write the Beatles song "Revolution" which is anti-revolutionary?

Anyway, I believe he was a member of the White Panther Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Panthers) which was an organization to coincide with the BPP (not a racist counter). And that organization was overtly a radical leftist organization.

I still want to see that film however, is it any good?

[punisa]

Did he write the Beatles song "Revolution" which is anti-revolutionary?

Anyway, I believe he was a member of the White Panther Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Panthers) which was an organization to coincide with the BPP (not a racist counter). And that organization was overtly a radical leftist organization.

I still want to see that film however, is it any good?

Its a very good movie, clearly shows the transition of Lennon from the pop star, to activist, to pacifist to leftist.
Well, I've posted the link, so you just need 1.5 hours :)

[Nakidana]

Did he write the Beatles song "Revolution" which is anti-revolutionary?

From the interview:

"TA: In a way you were even thinking about politics when you seemed to be knocking revolution?

JL: Ah, sure, 'Revolution' .There were two versions of that song but the underground left only picked up on the one that said 'count me out'. The original version which ends up on the LP said 'count me in' too; I put in both because I wasn't sure. There was a third version that was just abstract, musique concrete, kind of loops and that, people screaming. I thought I was painting in sound a picture of revolution--but I made a mistake, you know. The mistake was that it was anti-revolution.

On the version released as a single I said 'when you talk about destruction you can count me out'. I didn't want to get killed. I didn't really know that much about the Maoists, but I just knew that they seemed to be so few and yet they painted themselves green and stood in front of the police waiting to get picked off. I just thought it was unsubtle, you know. I thought the original Communist revolutionaries coordinated themselves a bit better and didn't go around shouting about it. That was how I felt--I was really asking a question. As someone from the working class I was always interested in Russia and China and everything that related to the working class, even though I was playing the capitalist game.

At one time I was so much involved in the religious bullshit that I used to go around calling myself a Christian Communist, but as Janov says, religion is legalised madness. It was therapy that stripped away all that and made me feel my own pain."

[punisa]

That was really a great interview, just finished reading it. If I may C/P a small part that will surely fit the topic:

Tariq Ali: "How do you think we can destroy the capitalist system here in Britain, John?"

John Lennon: "I think only by making the workers aware of the really unhappy position they are in, breaking the dream they are surrounded by. They think they are in a wonderful, free-speaking country. They've got cars and tellies and they don't want to think there's anything more to life. They are prepared to let the bosses run them, to see their children fucked up in school. They're dreaming someone else's dream, it's not even their own. They should realise that the blacks and the Irish are being harassed and repressed and that they will be next.

As soon as they start being aware of all that, we can really begin to do something. The workers can start to take over. Like Marx said: 'To each according to his need'. I think that would work well here. But we'd also have to infiltrate the army too, because they are well trained to kill us all.

We've got to start all this from where we ourselves are oppressed. I think it's false, shallow, to be giving to others when your own need is great. The idea is not to comfort people, not to make them feel better but to make them feel worse, to constantly put before them the degradations and humiliations they go through to get what they call a living wage."

[Crux]

I've read many things about John and many lefties criticize him, some even call him a "fool".
This doesn't seem very fair considering that almost all popular musicians never showed any interest in socialism, dare not to sing about it.

Lennon wrote one of my favourite songs, if I'd make my lefty TOP 10 (yeah, it sounds cheesy) it'd probably be up there - "Working class Hero".

I've just uploaded a cover version of the mentioned song with a video you just might like :lol:
The link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7H1rVibuMY


Anyway, besides his songs that are obviously left oriented and my dubious self advertising. Could someone fill in the gap on his apparent funding of Trockist groups and his overall engagement in the movement?
I was puzzled over where to put this, music, learning?
But I guess learning is fine, hope we learn something new :)
Please me give me some good stuff, as I know an army of John fans who'd make excellent lefties :laugh:
I think that I heard that according to the CIA Lennon had contacts with the International Marxist Group(The USFI section) when living in the US. I don't know much more beyond that. Power to the people!

[Sawtooth]

I can respect him since he's one of the few people who's benefited incredibly from the capitalist system and was still a very outspoken critic.

That being said, he could've done a lot more for class struggle with all the millions of dollars he made...

[punisa]

I can respect him since he's one of the few people who's benefited incredibly from the capitalist system and was still a very outspoken critic.

That being said, he could've done a lot more for class struggle with all the millions of dollars he made...

Well that was sort of his plan, but I hear that there was a tiny minor obstacle in the course of his actions - he got shot ! :(

[Rangi]

The CIA tried to get Lennon removed form the USA. The establishment considered him very dangerous.

David A. Noebel wrote a 15 page book published by Christian Crusade called Communism, Hypnotism and The Beatles. This book contends that The Beatles were agents of communism sent to subvert the youth of America through mass hypnosis.

They do have some pretty catchy songs.

[punisa]

The CIA tried to get Lennon removed form the USA. The establishment considered him very dangerous.

David A. Noebel wrote a 15 page book published by Christian Crusade called Communism, Hypnotism and The Beatles. This book contends that The Beatles were agents of communism sent to subvert the youth of America through mass hypnosis.

They do have some pretty catchy songs.

Haha, that sounds funny :lol:
WHo knows? For example "I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love" hmmm, sounds rather communist indeed :)

I think I'll fire up some of their music right now and see if I can get hypnotised even deeper into the communist idea.

[fanoflenin]

So Zeitgeist is pro-Socialism? I guess I should have known that.

[punisa]

So Zeitgeist is pro-Socialism? I guess I should have known that.

Well not that much, the second part maybe so. But its more of anti-capitalist anti-imperialist view, socialism is hardly even spoken. There is however a theory that the producer did it in that way because Americans are usually freaked out when they hear the S word :lol:

To figure out if Lennon had any ambitions to take a similar approach is hard to justify.
But he did succeeded to gather masses with hi anti-war movement, perhaps if he called it a socialist movement his effort would be much less rewarding, don't you think?

To educate the masses in the US, there is a great deal of planning needed to come up with a way that everyone will understand.