Stormfront

[dmcauliffe09]

I was recently reading a thread on the ultra-right white nationalist website Stormfront:

http://www.***************/forum/showthread.php?t=554453

It really makes me think, how many people like this are out there? How can we as leftists get rid of such ignorant ideology? And is that even possible? Because, let's face it, these people are rasing their children like this, who will probably raise their children like their parents, etc. We see a never-ending cycle of ignorance AND stupidity.

[Dóchas]

kill them or re educate them i guess :unsure: (bit harsh i know but it is the truth)

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Well capitalism has a habbit of causing racism , sexism etc and fascism is basically the last resort of a dieing bourgeoisie, but such inlfuances can be removed from public right now though millitant anti fascism*


* which also helps because if nazi meetings are getting attacked by us chances are our meetings arnt getting attacked by nazis

[Dóchas]

We must try to educate the people against fascism, capitalism and other exploitative ideologies. Also we must not make the mistake of sending the fascists to gulags or executing them, because this would make them martyrs and would legitimize their form of thinking.

darn :unsure:

do you really think they will give up what they believed in all theor live to then believe in the complete opposite?

[jake williams]

Something that the Left is in denial about is the fact that "fascism" is in many ways a working class ideology - not in that it serves the interests of the working class, but in that its support tends to stem from very vicious oppression. When workers are heavily oppressed, and are not given a good explanation of their problems or a solution to them, fascism looks like a practical option. It explains the problem - social deviants, other races, etc. - and gives a solution that will give certain people power, and as we saw in the 1930s, jobs and social services. It's all nonsense and has horrific consequences - but when people are made totally irrational, it makes sense.

So I think the solution in large part entails explaining to workers what their real problems are, why they happen, and what they can actually do about it.

[Trystan]

A big hello to all our "fans" on Stormfront! :thumbup:

[Trystan]

Something that the Left is in denial about is the fact that "fascism" is in many ways a working class ideology - not in that it serves the interests of the working class, but in that its support tends to stem from very vicious oppression. When workers are heavily oppressed, and are not given a good explanation of their problems or a solution to them, fascism looks like a practical option. It explains the problem - social deviants, other races, etc. - and gives a solution that will give certain people power, and as we saw in the 1930s, jobs and social services. It's all nonsense and has horrific consequences - but when people are made totally irrational, it makes sense.

So I think the solution in large part entails explaining to workers what their real problems are, why they happen, and what they can actually do about it.

Fascism is not a "working-class ideology" in any way. It originated from the ranks of the Italian bourgeoisie. It's a capitalist ideology much like social democracy in that it attempts to patch up the problems of capitalism and therefore keep at bay the dangers of actual proletarian revolution.

[jake williams]

Fascism is not a "working-class ideology" in any way. It originated from the ranks of the Italian bourgeoisie. It's a capitalist ideology much like social democracy in that it attempts to patch up the problems of capitalism and therefore keep at bay the dangers of actual proletarian revolution.
Did you read my whole post? I know it originated from the Italian bourgeoisie, and I know it's against the class interests of the workers. The Italian bourgeoisie is, however, for the most part, not so into it anymore. Fascism, in my experience, is something that attracts oppressed people, for the reasons I explained.

[Mindtoaster]

Fascism is not a "working-class ideology" in any way. It originated from the ranks of the Italian bourgeoisie. It's a capitalist ideology much like social democracy in that it attempts to patch up the problems of capitalism and therefore keep at bay the dangers of actual proletarian revolution.

And in Germany it originated from the middle-class petit-bourgeois. It has never originated from the working class but it has only taken hold when the working class did nothing to stop it and it will only occur again if the working class does nothing to stop it.

That being said, I dont think a group of masked leftist kids smashing store-front windows accomplishes anything, atleast in regards to countries like Britain and America. However, militiant anti-fascism is needed in places where nazi ideologies really have taken root (Russia, Bulgaria, etc). For the moment we in the west should focus on education and such. Get the masses on our side, instead of the far-right.

Fuck, I hate how much it sounds like we're Christians going on about "claiming souls for the lord" when we bring up recruitment

[Mujer Libre]

I'm moving this to anti-fascism. It just seems like a better fit, since the discussion is more about the fash than about the racism.

[StalinFanboy]

Hahahahahah and I thought we had a problem about security...

[Rjevan]

God, these **** idiots get on my nerves (Stormfront, if there was any doubt ;))!
I really don't know what to do about them, educating them is in my opinion useless since they don't listen to rational arguments or scientifically facts but we must educate the working class that the fascists are not their friends and counter these "Well, Mussolini did good work. Hitler was a bastard but you can't say nothing against Mussolini." arguments I recently hear a lot.

[StalinFanboy]

It would help if they had a decent grasp on English. I mean even the ones from English speaking countries have a hard time stringing together basic sentences.

[Rjevan]

Haha, that's something I've noticed, too. And I'm German. :lol:

[Holden Caulfield]

I dont think Stormfront needs any special attention, I will mention one thing that is amazing about Stormfront that you do not find on revleft:

they make things up and say them as if they are scientific fact, whereas if we did that here we would be laughed off the forum for talking utter shite.

"Its been proved that whites share 80% DNA with the ancient people of Atlantis, and this is why they score higher on testing for ESP than other non aryan races, oh and Iranians aren't aryan because they are not white"

[StalinFanboy]

I've noticed that too. It seems there is no real motivation for truth. And no understanding of theory (This is demonstrated by calling us "fascists" for not allowing real fascists on the board.)

[Holden Caulfield]

I've noticed that too. It seems there is no real motivation for truth. And no understanding of theory (This is demonstrated by calling us "fascists" for not allowing real fascists on the board.)

Two types of arguments irritate me, one is when people use human nature as an argument and the other is when people band the word fascist around to mean 'bad guys'.

[hugsandmarxism]

There are some real charmers over there on SF.

I'm not going to put into words what I think the fate of fascists should be... I think the emphasis should be nipping it in the bud by giving the children of fascists homes away from their hate-filled parents, and teach those on the borderline some sense and decency. Those who can't be taught to reason, who seek fill the minds of young children with notions of racial superiority and hatred, commit violence against the innocent, and make life less than bearable for our fellow man(or woman)... should be dealt with in a manner so they cannot do those things anymore.

[rednordman]

And in Germany it originated from the middle-class petit-bourgeois. It has never originated from the working class but it has only taken hold when the working class did nothing to stop it and it will only occur again if the working class does nothing to stop it.ha ha the truth be known. All these fascists really are is lapdogs for the rich. I think that the majority of people on stormfront believe that fascism and nazism are working class ideologies. And if you where to look at the cliental, than its likely that they are, but if your were to take a look at history, it just happens to be a very, very convenient toy for the bourgoises. Ok, the jews where an exeption (but they were hitlers specific target). If you where to look at other rich people of the fascists states, it took alot for them to recieve the same kind of attacks and treatment. Blimey didnt they still even have a capitalist economy during nazi germany? Says it all really.

[Holden Caulfield]

Ok, the jews where an exeption

are you implying the Jews as a ethnic group were bourgeois?
perhaps it is just badly worded...

[LOLseph Stalin]

Hmm...Stormfront seems popular on here lately. I have seen at least three threads about it in the last two days.

[Vahanian]

you can thank all the trolls for that

[LOLseph Stalin]

Thank you, Nazi pig trolls! :P

[Vahanian]

You took my idea a bit literally don't ye think:lol:

[LOLseph Stalin]

Yea, just a little. lol :lol:

[Glorious Union]

Nothing will change any of their opinions.

They are beyond help, the most clueless robot retards you could find

Ironic that they talk of us the same way we talk of them. This same comment could be used on RevLeft, speaking of the right wing people on Stormfront. We have our similarities after all.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Originally Posted by Some random Stormfronter
Nothing will change any of their opinions.

They are beyond help, the most clueless robot retards you could find


That means Robo-Stalin really does exist?(long story...)

[Vahanian]

Robo stalin? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! runnnnn!:D

that qoute just means we each dislike each other... alot

[LOLseph Stalin]

Robo stalin? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! runnnnn!http://www.revleft.com/vb/stormfront-p1367261/revleft/smilies/biggrin.gif

You better be running! Robo-Stalin got his Robo-Ice Pick Minions to kill Robo-Trotsky so I must build a Robo-Hitler to destroy him, but then it'll be difficult to destroy Robo-Hitler...

[Holden Caulfield]

this isn't chit chat, we did have a thread to mock nazis in but the moderation team deemed it necessary to get rid of.

dont chat up 'serious threads' please

[LOLseph Stalin]

My bad. I get off topic way too easily. I'm like that in real life sometimes too. >.<

[Trystan]

Did you read my whole post? I know it originated from the Italian bourgeoisie, and I know it's against the class interests of the workers. The Italian bourgeoisie is, however, for the most part, not so into it anymore. Fascism, in my experience, is something that attracts oppressed people, for the reasons I explained.

Yes I did read your whole post. In it you said that fascism was "in many ways" a working-class ideology and I dispute this . . . just because it has an attraction to working people does not necessarily make it a working-class ideology in any way.

[jake williams]

Yes I did read your whole post. In it you said that fascism was "in many ways" a working-class ideology and I dispute this . . . just because it has an attraction to working people does not necessarily make it a working-class ideology in any way.
Okay, fair enough. I think you're still missing my point. My use of "fascism" is a lot less casual than a lot of folks here, but I'm still describing sort of a "really existing fascism" that some people actually support today. And these people are not capitalists. They're a reactionary part of the working class. Yes, it originated in the European bourgeoisie. No, it doesn't actually help workers. But workers are, especially now, its prime proponents, and they really believe it will help them for reasons that make some sort of sense.

[rednordman]

are you implying the Jews as a ethnic group were bourgeois?
perhaps it is just badly worded... All apologies, it is just badly worded. What i meant was that at the time rich jews. Technically he could have attacked the whole bourgoise, but he singled out the jews. In that sence, he made everyone believe that all jews where rich and buisness owners, which we all know wasnt true anyway. Basically it asks to anyone who believes that fascism is a working class ideology, why did he only go for the alleged wealthy jews? and not other wealthy people. Its pretty f**ked up when you think that their main link to thinking that nazism and fascism was a working class ideology, was what he did to a race of people whom he blamed solely for the worlds problems. How can it be a working class ideology when they clearly were class collabrationists?

[Melbourne Lefty]

Yes I did read your whole post. In it you said that fascism was "in many ways" a working-class ideology and I dispute this . . . just because it has an attraction to working people does not necessarily make it a working-class ideology in any way.

This needs to be cleared up.

Modern Fash/neo-fash/right-populists et al DO NOT THINK IN TERMS OF CLASS.

They may TALK about class in terms of tactics [winning support, building communities] but its only in the same way as we would talk about support being built in say, the islamic community because many workers Organisations are against the occupation of Palestine.

The fash think in terms of tribe, we think in terms of class. they see ultra capitalism as hurtfull to their tribe, we see it as being hurtfull to our class.

Becuase we see class as the most important identity a person can fight for, and they see tribe as the same, we end up talking about the same things [capitalism, class, ethnic identity] in TOTALLY DIFFERENT ways.

Its like two people looking at a horse, one from its back, one with his head stuck up its rear, both people are looking at the same horse, but for some reason one of them is still in the dark...:D

Thats the explanation for your average Fash, your average neo-nazi on the other hand sees everything as being orchestrated by the shadowy hand of the evil jews, and wont believe anything different.