Log in

View Full Version : Yes we can! Obama now officially worse than Bush



Wanted Man
23rd February 2009, 08:32
February 22, 2009
Obama denies terror suspects right to trial

By Stephen Foley

Human rights groups shocked by refusal to reverse Bush policy in Afghanistan

Less than a month after signing an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, President Barack Obama has quietly agreed to keep denying the right to trial to hundreds more terror suspects held at a makeshift camp in Afghanistan that human rights lawyers have dubbed “Obama’s Guantanamo”.


In a single-sentence answer filed with a Washington court, the administration dashed hopes that it would immediately rip up Bush-era policies that have kept more than 600 prisoners in legal limbo and in rudimentary conditions at the Bagram air base, north of Kabul.


Now, human rights groups say they are becoming increasingly concerned that the use of extra-judicial methods in Afghanistan could be extended rather than curtailed under the new US administration. The air base is about to undergo a $60m (£42m) expansion that will double its size, meaning it can house five times as many prisoners as remain at Guantanamo.


Apart from staff at the International Red Cross, human rights groups and journalists have been barred from Bagram, where former prisoners say they were tortured by being shackled to the ceiling of isolation cells and deprived of sleep.



The base became notorious when two Afghan inmates died after the use of such techniques in 2002, and although treatment and conditions have been improved since then, the Red Cross issued a formal complaint to the US government in 2007 about harsh treatment of some prisoners held in isolation for months.


While the majority of the estimated 600 prisoners are believed to be Afghan, an unknown number – perhaps several dozen – have been picked up from other countries.



One of the detainees who passed through the Afghan prison was Binyam Mohamed, the British resident who is expected to return to the UK this week after his release from Guantanamo Bay. Mr Mohamed’s lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith, head of a legal charity called Reprieve, called President Obama’s strategy “the Bagram bait and switch”, where the administration was trumpeting the closure of a camp housing 242 prisoners, while scaling up the Bagram base to house 1,100 more.


“Guantanamo Bay was a diversionary tactic in the ‘War on Terror’,” said the lawyer. “Totting up the prisoners around the world – held by the US in Iraq, Afghanistan, Djibouti, the prison ships and Diego Garcia, or held by US proxies in Jordan, Egypt and Morocco – the numbers dwarf Guantanamo. There are still perhaps as many as 18,000 people in legal black holes. Mr Obama should perhaps be offered more than a month to get the American house in order. However, this early sally from the administration underlines another message: it is far too early for human rights advocates to stand on the USS Abraham Lincoln and announce, ‘Mission Accomplished’.”


Four non-Afghan detainees at Bagram are fighting a legal case in Washington to be given the same access to the US court system that was granted to the inmates of Guantanamo Bay by a controversial Supreme Court decision last year. The Bush administration was fighting their claim.


Two days into his presidency, Mr Obama promised to shut Guantanamo within a year in an effort to restore America’s moral standing in the world and to prosecute the struggle against terrorism “in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals”. But on the same day, the judge in the Bagram case said that the order “indicated significant changes to the government’s approach to the detention, and review of detention, of individuals currently held at Guantanamo Bay” and that “a different approach could impact the court’s analysis of certain issues central to the resolution” of the Bagram cases as well. Judge John Bates asked the new administration if it wanted to “refine” its stance.


The response, filed by the Department of Justice late on Friday, came as a crushing blow to human rights campaigners. “Having considered the matter, the government adheres to its previously articulated position,” it said.


Tina Foster, executive director of the International Justice Network, the New York human rights organisation representing the detainees, warned last night that “by leaving Bagram open, the administration turns the closure of Guantanamo into essentially a hollow and symbolic gesture”.


She said: “Without reconsidering the underlying policy, which has led to the abuses at Abu Ghraib and the indefinite detention of hundreds of people all these years, then we are simply returning to the status quo. The exact same thing that had the world up in arms has been going on at Bagram since even before Guantanamo.



“People have been tortured to the point that they have died; it is a rallying cry for those who oppose the US actions in Afghanistan; it is not strategic for the US; and, more importantly, holding people indefinitely, regardless of who they are and regardless of the facts, is completely inconsistent with everything we stand for as a country.”


The Department of Justice would only say that the legal briefs in the Washington case “speak for themselves”. It says Bagram is a special case because, unlike Guantanamo, it is sited within a theatre of war.


Mr Obama has pushed out the wider questions about the US policy on detaining terror suspects and supporters of the Taliban in Afghanistan until the summer, ordering a review that will take six months to complete.



The administration is weighing the likely increase in prisoners from an expanded fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, against the international perception that it is embedding extra-judicial detention into its policies for years to come.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-denies-terror-suspects-right-to-trial-1628958.html



I do believe we had some Obama fans on RevLeft, or at least people who honestly thought that he was going to bring some sort of "change", even within the narrow framework of US capitalism and imperialism. So what do these people think now? It only took Obama one month to worsen the US's record of torture and murder.


Yes we can!

Pogue
23rd February 2009, 08:34
He's a wanker like I knew he'd be.

Kassad
23rd February 2009, 14:50
Anyone who thinks that a center-right reformist, who has shown no signs of advocating revolutionary socialism, would make actual change is delusional. People spend so much time trying to repair the broken capitalist system, even some of which are on this board preaching Marxism and communism. In all honesty, I don't see the closing of the Guantanamo Bay prison as any real significant procession towards compassion and respect of other human beings. I seriously doubt that any more than 5% of American prisoners of war, hostages and political prisoners were held in Guantanamo. We have prison camps all across the globe and until they are all closed, we will make no significant headway in the crusade for justice.

Meanwhile, President Obama ignores the racist imprisonment of prisoners in the United States, such as the Cuban Five, the Jena Six, the San Francisco Eight and Leonard Peltier. Where are the calls for justice from this man and his supporters who are so adamant about achieving some form of change? Change is not going to come from American elections, as the corporate media powerhouses control every aspect of the election procedure. They control who is popularized, who is painted positively and who is elected. If real, honest candidates who could potentially bring actual social reforms received as much publicity as Barack Obama, we'd be organizing a massive recolutionary movement, but that is impossible in the shambles of bourgeoise society.

The only real solution is a revolutionary movement that not only shakes the core of the bourgeoisie state, but destroys it all together. Only when power is concentrated in the hands of the working class and the proletariat will we achieve actual change and actual liberation.

Sendo
23rd February 2009, 15:45
(to kassad) word, man.

Obama's continuation of drone-propelled bombings in Pakistan is eerily similar to Nixon's bombing of Cambodia during Vietnam/IndoChina days. We are seeing an extremist group get more power in a (former?) client because of our intervention. Replace the Phnom Penh govt with Musharraf and the Pol Pot with the Taleban. Nice job, Obama. With any luck women's rights will soon be on the same level as Afghanistan.

Rjevan
23rd February 2009, 22:01
And again I want to see the faces of the "Obama is our messiah and saviour!" people. :rolleyes:
Shutting down Guantanamo was only a symbol which means nothing, as it's likely that there are such camps all over the world, like Kassad said.
The USA always excellently understood to create its own enemies, e.g. supporting Khomeini or arming the Taleban to fight communism in Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they'd help the Taleban back to power.

brigadista
23rd February 2009, 22:31
Obama is and always was just more of the same.

rednordman
23rd February 2009, 22:58
Obama's continuation of drone-propelled bombings in Pakistan is eerily similar to Nixon's bombing of Cambodia during Vietnam/IndoChina days. We are seeing an extremist group get more power in a (former?) client because of our intervention. Replace the Phnom Penh govt with Musharraf and the Pol Pot with the Taleban. Nice job, Obama. With any luck women's rights will soon be on the same level as Afghanistan.I'v got to say that this particular action has actually shocked me about Obamas start. I imagine that most of the people on this board would have expected it though. To me there is something rather strange about firing rockets and attacking a country that you are not officially at war with, but just because it is the 'war on terror'? I mean couldnt that technically give NATO/US/UK a reason to bomb any country in the whole world where there is muslims, just on the off-chance that there is extremists amongst them?..then surely there isnt a country in the world that is not under threat?

Rebel_Serigan
24th February 2009, 05:10
It's all just political bs int he end. All candiidates are the same ( with maybe the exception of FDR) they are just in it for the power and iron gripped control. Closing one prison on Cuban soil is enough to make stupid doubts to believe on the "New Messiah" but for those who know anything about America aren't convinced. OH! and I found out something about those other internment camps. Aparently the EU was getting rather suspicious because a large number of planes were landing in South-Eastern European countries in the middle of the night just long enough to refeul and take off again. After comparing the logs and eventually checking the charter and cargo, guess what? It was commisioned to the CIA (American KGB) and they were taking a plane load of unregistered prisoners to secret CIA run prison camps in friendly Southern Europe. As soon as Obama "was notifyed" he sent in a replacement CIA director in order to break this ring of prison camps and torture. I think it is just a public relations ploy to get people to think he is still focused on social reform.

Comrade B
24th February 2009, 06:32
Don't think this makes him worse than Bush... it just makes him no different.
In my view, under Bush we would have enjoyed another couple wars, and a continuing growing of violence. Under Obama, things will remain exactly the same as Bush left them.

I prefer Obama to Bush or McCain, only because the center right actually doesn't do anything, while the right does bad things

Plagueround
24th February 2009, 06:41
But but but...hope and change! Hope and change?


:mellow:

communard resolution
24th February 2009, 07:09
Up to 18,000 political prisoners held by the US worldwide without a trial or representation and under brutal conditions - why isn't this officially called a gulag?

Qayin
24th February 2009, 08:05
I'llbombya hasnt been in office long enough to be worse then bush
but hes still going off the policies he has set

Atleast no Cheney and he can speak fucking proper english

dmcauliffe09
24th February 2009, 08:16
Obama...we will see. I can't judge him yet because his fuckups are common among all presidents. But there's no way he's worse than Bush just yet.

ZeroNowhere
24th February 2009, 08:38
I'llbombya hasnt been in office long enough to be worse then bush
but hes still going off the policies he has set

Atleast no Cheney and he can speak fucking proper english
Bush's speeches were at least fun, though. Obama's more dull than Job for a Cowboy.