WTF is going on in Libya? Weird article I found..

[Yazman]

Now I honestly don't expect anything to come of this given that it's Libya, but I figured I'd post this anyway... does anybody have any comments?

Snippet from article:


Gaddafi offers oil and power to people

Forty years into the revolution he unleashed on Libya Muammar Gaddafi has announced plans to dismantle the Government, hand the riches from Africa's biggest oil reserves to the people and nationalise foreign oil operations that have recently been allowed back into the country.

“The administration has failed and the state economy has failed. Enough is enough. The solution is, we Libyans take directly the oil money and decide what to do with the money,” he says.

To end the corruption that has sapped the vast oil wealth, bundles of cash should be delivered to the poor, three quarters of the ministries should cease to exist and the workers should run hospitals and schools.

Here's the link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5776215.ece

[redSHARP]

wait...what?! no way this can actually be legit!

[Woland]

1977 Every Libyan family is asked to raise a chicken at home

what?

[Yazman]

wait...what?! no way this can actually be legit!

Yeah, that was my reaction. Unfortunately my knowledge of Libya is mostly restricted to African Union affairs and relations with nearby countries. Would anybody who knows more about this care to shed some light on it?

[mosfeld]

*faps furiously while reading that article*

These are awesome news, i.e if they are true.

[Rjevan]

Strange ... did I miss something?
This must be a joke ... or not?

[cyu]

Fascinating stuff. LOL at the reporter who's basically implying that the guy is crazy just because he's not proposing your standard cookie-cutter political policies.

[Ismail]

what?I'm pretty sure that's so they can, y'know, have some self-sufficient food. (Eggs)

[cyu]

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Book

The Green Book (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language) الكتاب الأخضر) is a book written by the Libyan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya) leader Muammar al-Qaddafi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_al-Qaddafi), first published in 1975, outlining his views on democracy and his political philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy).


The Solution of the Problem of Democracy: 'The Authority of the People'
The Solution of the Economic Problem: 'Socialism'
The Social Basis of the Third Universal Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Universal_Theory)
The book is very controversial in that it completely rejects modern liberal democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy) and encourages the institution of a form of direct democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy) based on popular committees.

[Woland]

I'm pretty sure that's so they can, y'know, have some self-sufficient food. (Eggs)

While that would perhaps show some extraordinary tactical ingenuity on the side of Quadaffi, it is still the weirdest part of the article. Everybody hoard eggs? In apartment blocks?

Anyway, what are people's thoughts here on him and the Jamahiriya?

[Coggeh]

Holy shit ...:huh:

[Greenman]

First remember who the leader of Libya is - the autocratic leader of an authoritarian state.

Then remember his history - support and courting of just about every fruitloop and extremist who declared themselves an opponent of THE WEST. This has included, at various times along the way, Third Positionist Fascists, (Anyone remember those pics of certain former NF leading elements in Libya?) terrorists of a number of stripes, (right, left, theocratic and in some cases probable state-led pseudo-gangs). It has involved sucking up at various stages to other regimes, including the late regime of George Bush. Nice.

The eclectic mixing of mutually exclusive ideologies to give ideological "weight" to a regime is repulsive.

Hence, in the Libyan case, the Green book - which appears to attempt to marry Islam, "radical" fascism, vulgar "Marxism" and anarchism.

Consider all this before accepting the deadly embrace of "Comrade" Gadaffi/Qadaffi as an ideological bedfellow.

A popular English expression concerning Bargepoles comes to mind;)

[Nils T.]

I don't usually embrace old people, and never conclude fellowship of the bed on account of ideology.

But screw ideologies. This is the most exciting and unconvincing event of all times since that strange and unnamed girl told me she wanted to live with me.

[Yehuda Stern]

1. Libya has to have one of the most absolutely insane political regimes I know of in history, so don't be surprised by its figurehead saying all sorts of pretty strange things.
2. Although the naivety of some of the leftists here is admirable, I wouldn't be very quick to decide that Qaddafi is going to create a socialist state (of course, if Chavez can do that, then why not anyone else?). This populist rhetoric is probably just a cover for additional moves towards full blown market capitalism.

[scarletghoul]

Yes, Gaddafi is a socialist and a very unique dictator. This is old news.

[Ismail]

1. Libya has to have one of the most absolutely insane political regimes I know of in history, so don't be surprised by its figurehead saying all sorts of pretty strange things.British tabloids make Yehuda a sensationalist boy.

The "OH GOD EL-QADHAFI IS INSANE" view are no different from "OH GOD SADDAM IS GOING TO CONQUER THE MIDDLE EAST" in 1990/2003 or "MUGABE IS AN INSANE RACIST WITH A HITLER MOUSTACHE OH DEAR GOD"

Please tell me why el-Qadhafi leads the African Union if he's insane?

El-Qadhafi, even though he isn't a Marxist, did give aid to genuine anti-imperialist forces of any ideology, so long as they were genuine. He's is also considered a very popular leader in Africa and a unifying force for it.

[Coggeh]

1. Libya has to have one of the most absolutely insane political regimes I know of in history, so don't be surprised by its figurehead saying all sorts of pretty strange things.
2. Although the naivety of some of the leftists here is admirable, I wouldn't be very quick to decide that Qaddafi is going to create a socialist state (of course, if Chavez can do that, then why not anyone else?). This populist rhetoric is probably just a cover for additional moves towards full blown market capitalism.
How so ?

I wouldn't be so quick to discount gaddafi just because he doesn't live up we western standards .

We are well in our right to be pessimistic about his reasoning and I'll probably be proved wrong but this is excellent news .

[Coggeh]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKLE18020720090214?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

he seems to be quite set on this plan tbh.

[Post-Something]

Meh, I won't be optimistic, but in all honesty, I've always held a little bit of respect for Gaddafi.

[Davie zepeda]

So is this policy socialist or just a return to free market enterprise. To me it seems he wants to stimulate the economy by building small business.
In all seriousness can we even take the Libyan model of goverment serious?
If this happens what will be the affect's will it further there revolution or kill it?

[Josef Balin]

1. Libya has to have one of the most absolutely insane political regimes I know of in history, so don't be surprised by its figurehead saying all sorts of pretty strange things.
2. Although the naivety of some of the leftists here is admirable, I wouldn't be very quick to decide that Qaddafi is going to create a socialist state (of course, if Chavez can do that, then why not anyone else?). This populist rhetoric is probably just a cover for additional moves towards full blown market capitalism.
Full blown market capitalism?



My God.

[Yazman]

I am not so quick to discount what is going on there. It seems like there is a certain amount of analysis going on, and I would say that the following few sentences are the sort of ideas and statements that I see commonly thrown around on Revleft:


"These popular committees (ministries) should hand over the people the schools, manufacturing plants, farms, all state enterprises and the oil money before they were dismantled," he said.

Gaddafi said corruption has become widespread in the government and just reshuffling cabinet would not cure the state of graft and mismanagement.

"You would fail to stop corruption as long as the state owns the oil wealth, makes contracts with companies to carry out projects, manages health care, education and other services and economic projects," he added.

My estimate: As with Chavez not much will come of this, but at least there's some interesting rhetoric.

[Yehuda Stern]

Please tell me why el-Qadhafi leads the African Union if he's insane?

I never said he's insane - I said his political regime is insane. That wasn't meant to be a scientific Marxist definition. Anyone who read a bit of its history and some of the Green book would agree that it's some strange stuff.



El-Qadhafi, even though he isn't a Marxist, did give aid to genuine anti-imperialist forces of any ideology, so long as they were genuine. He's is also considered a very popular leader in Africa and a unifying force for it.

If you're trying to get as'li on me, then try "Al-Qaddafi" (leader of Libya), or more precisely "Al-Qathafi," instead of "El-Qaddafi" (the leader of Libya if he were Spanish). Anyway, yes, he was at times allied to other bourgeois nationalist forces when it served his interests. He also allies with bloody dictators and imperialists, such as the Phillipines' Marcos and Sarkozy, when it serves his interests. Just like any other third world bourgeois nationalist.


I wouldn't be so quick to discount gaddafi just because he doesn't live up we western standards .

And when did I say that that's the reason why I don't support him?

[Yazman]

It is indeed some very strange stuff.

[Josef Balin]

There's no reason for him to say any of this stuff whatsoever if he doesn't mean it, and you guys think he's just doing something to the affect of throwing the workers bones, but his workers aren't requesting this. He's a head of state who has the power to do this stuff, not some RevLefter, and you guys seem to get mad at him just for saying this stuff, but Libyans are going to be voting on this in eight days so I would say this stuff seems pretty real to me.

[scarletghoul]

Lets hope he can dismantle as much state apparatus as possible before he dies and a power vaccuum emerges. :/

[Dimentio]

Qadhafi is just a living example what happens if we give power to such a person as John Lenin, BPSocialist, sizpo communist... and then lend back and see what happen.

[Vendetta]

Qadhafi is just a living example what happens if we give power to such a person as John Lenin, BPSocialist, sizpo communist... and then lend back and see what happen.

At least he has an awesome wardrobe.

[cyu]

First remember who the leader of Libya is - the autocratic leader of an authoritarian state.


Some might say the same of Venezuela or Bolivia or Cuba. One thing that is important to remember is that no matter where you live, your government isn't as benevolent as you are made to believe, and the enemies of your government aren't as evil as you are made to believe.

Anyway, from the article: "Many feel that they have not had their equal share even if outward signs of poverty in the deeply religious society are scarce." Little scarcity? Sounds like they've almost achieved at least one of the goals leftists are after.

[Small Geezer]

This sounds like a job for...Muammar Qaddafi?
Mon, 02/02/2009 - 12:12pm
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/090202_qaddafi.jpg

Anyone who follows Libya's Muammar Qaddafi knows that today is a big, big day for the man once called the "Mad Dog of the Middle East." After decades of proclaiming himself leader of the African continent, he was elected year-long Chairman of the African Union today in Addis Ababa.

It's not as if the title came unexpectedly. North Africa was up for the regionally rotating seat. So beginning last summer, Qaddafi crowned himself "king of kings," quite literally by inviting 200 traditional rulers to Libya so that they might elect him. He arrived at the AU summit with seven more well-dressed kings by his side (turns out they didn't make the guest list and weren't allowed in). And once inside, Qaddafi is said to have circulated a letter with a simple message: I am king of kings, and I expect to be treated like one. No big shocker when the closed door vote put Qaddafi at the reigns...