Paganism in Christianity

[FuckYoCouch]

Anyone have examples?

[thinkerOFthoughts]

Communion, the Trinity, the whole Jesus story (it mirrors almost all the other pagan messiah stories) praying to patron saints, Confession to a priest,
their are a whole lot more but you will find the most pagan ties to Catholic Christianity more than any other.

[FuckYoCouch]

i agree with Most of that. THe Catholic Church Definitely has ties in Paganism. Drinking the blood of christ, idol worship, repetative prayer. etc etc

[thinkerOFthoughts]

assuming your Christian (cuz the sig and avatar) why would you want to know these kinds of things?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Don't forget Christmas and Easter.

[Knight of Cydonia]

how about go to church on sunday?

[FuckYoCouch]

assuming your Christian (cuz the sig and avatar) why would you want to know these kinds of things?


Because, as i do not Celebrate Christmas, Halloween, or goto church on sunday, i find it weird that i can watch immortal technique, who as far as i know, is non religious, talking about paganism in teh church, i found it kind of funny. ALso, Easter Is a Christan Feast of the Resurrection of Jesus. Not pagan

[Jazzratt]

ALso, Easter Is a Christan Feast of the Resurrection of Jesus. Not pagan

Just because you take a general spring feast with strong pagan themes (resurrection, for example) and slap the name Christ on it doesn't mean it's not heavily influenced by paganism. The whole Jesus story is riddled with pagan themes though, which is unsurprising given the history of christianity really.

[ibn Bruce]

They believe in an anthropomorphic God.

[Raúl Duke]

Easter is of Pagan origin. I think I even heard of a Wiccan holiday for a day that occurs during Easter....

[FuckYoCouch]

Easter is of Pagan origin. I think I even heard of a Wiccan holiday for a day that occurs during Easter....

i do beleive that many religions have holidays near the same time as others. But. there is not a damn thing pagan about celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

[manic expression]

i do beleive that many religions have holidays near the same time as others. But. there is not a damn thing pagan about celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

But there is about celebrating it with bunnies and eggs and flowers. You can call it about the Resurrection of Christ all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's based heavily on the pre-Christian celebration of equinox.

Also: the direction churches are supposed to face (I forget which one) comes from paganism, the celtic cross incorporates pagan imagery, Catholic rosaries are directly related to pagan traditions, the cult of Mary comes from the cults to Artemis and other goddesses, the pagan intellectual traditions of logic and reason adopted by Thomas Aquinas, iconophilism (iconoclasm was influenced by Islam), pilgrimage to holy sites and other aspects are all related to paganism.

[FuckYoCouch]

But there is about celebrating it with bunnies and eggs and flowers. You can call it about the Resurrection of Christ all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's based heavily on the pre-Christian celebration of equinox.

Yeah the way it is portrayed with the bunny is most definitely pagan. i forgot people did that xD. also, there is no Pre Christians, as Adam and Eve were the first.




Also: the direction churches are supposed to face (I forget which one) comes from paganism, the celtic cross incorporates pagan imagery, Catholic rosaries are directly related to pagan traditions, the cult of Mary comes from the cults to Artemis and other goddesses, the pagan intellectual traditions of logic and reason adopted by Thomas Aquinas, iconophilism (iconoclasm was influenced by Islam), pilgrimage to holy sites and other aspects are all related to paganism.

i didnt know churches were supposed to face a certain direction. hmm i have to research that.
but otherwise im suprised people actually can distinguish what is what. i have some faith in humanity yet :thumbup::lol:

[Bitter Ashes]

People are often suprised to hear that the whole nativity story was first told several thousand years before Christ was supposed to have been born. Anyone ever hear of Horus? Carbon copy of the whole Jebus story. linkeh (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm)
Did some divine bieng appear out of the sky to inform everyone? Was it the devil who did it? Or was it just that everyone kinda noticed that on the 24th of Decemeber the sun stops moving for 3 days... as if it's dead for 3 days before bieng ressurected? Around the same time "The Three Kings" of Orions Belt all point, from the East of the sky, towards the Pole Star aka "The light of the world", or it's Hebrew name "Bethlehem".
Zeitegiest did draw a lot of this to my attention and probably explains it better than I do, so if you get the time give it a watch, for a bit of fun if nothing else. :)

[LOLseph Stalin]

The story of Jesus was taken from earlier, similar versions from Pagan religions. Ancient Egyptian mythology definitely has it.

[synthesis]

i do beleive that many religions have holidays near the same time as others. But. there is not a damn thing pagan about celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm

[FuckYoCouch]

People are often suprised to hear that the whole nativity story was first told several thousand years before Christ was supposed to have been born. Anyone ever hear of Horus? Carbon copy of the whole Jebus story. linkeh (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm)
Did some divine bieng appear out of the sky to inform everyone? Was it the devil who did it? Or was it just that everyone kinda noticed that on the 24th of Decemeber the sun stops moving for 3 days... as if it's dead for 3 days before bieng ressurected? Around the same time "The Three Kings" of Orions Belt all point, from the East of the sky, towards the Pole Star aka "The light of the world", or it's Hebrew name "Bethlehem".
Zeitegiest did draw a lot of this to my attention and probably explains it better than I do, so if you get the time give it a watch, for a bit of fun if nothing else. :)

Jesus wasn't Born on December 25th Anyway.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Jesus wasn't Born on December 25th Anyway.

He was born in the middle of the summer, but it's celebrated in december because that was the time of an important Roman celebration.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Many similarities can be found between the Old Testament and the Chronicles of Assyria and Babylon, the flood not the least of which. I have a little difficulty believing the New Testament is a direct copy of an earlier religion, however.

Also, most holidays are based on the traditions of other cultures, which were assimilated into Christiandom much later. There are no genuinely Christian holidays, as the only ones mentioned throughout the Bible are Jewish ones. While Easter is, of course, brought up there is no indication of a command to observe it as a day different than any other and there certainly is no mention of chocolate bunnies.

[Jazzratt]

Yeah the way it is portrayed with the bunny is most definitely pagan. i forgot people did that xD. also, there is no Pre Christians, as Adam and Eve were the first.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And the thousands of years before anyone even mentioned your god and bumbled along with their own ones (who had all sorts of interesting myths. Resurrections, just like your jesus. Significant attachments to the number three, like your trinity. And so on) were what? Scotch Mist?

[Decolonize The Left]

also, there is no Pre Christians, as Adam and Eve were the first.

Really? So what are these?
http://www.sciencecentric.com/images/news/lucy_bones_300_588.jpg

Eve? Not according to carbon dating... this human being existed way before Eve... her name we don't know, if she even had one, but we call her Lucy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_%28Australopithecus%29).

- August

[FuckYoCouch]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And the thousands of years before anyone even mentioned your god and bumbled along with their own ones (who had all sorts of interesting myths. Resurrections, just like your jesus. Significant attachments to the number three, like your trinity. And so on) were what? Scotch Mist?


as i recall, Christianity didn't pop out of a book. the book is merely the end result of the generations psat experiences, put into word form for easier spreading. there was nobody Before "anyone mentioned my god" my god mentioned your retarded ass, and its been downhill since ;-)

[FuckYoCouch]

Really? So what are these?
http://www.sciencecentric.com/images/news/lucy_bones_300_588.jpg

Eve? Not according to carbon dating... this human being existed way before Eve... her name we don't know, if she even had one, but we call her Lucy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_%28Australopithecus%29).

- August

i dunno. but she isnt the first.

[Decolonize The Left]

i dunno. but she isnt the first.

Wait... so you want me to ignore evidence... and just believe that you know who the first people were.... because some other people told you to believe that... and they got it from a book which contradicts itself?

Is that what you're actually saying?

- August

[FuckYoCouch]

Wait... so you want me to ignore evidence... and just believe that you know who the first people were.... because some other people told you to believe that... and they got it from a book which contradicts itself?

Is that what you're actually saying?

- August

there is something there, (whats left of it anyway) obviously, i cant really contradict that, what exactly it is, is up for debate. science is corrupted. (ex, the Piltdown man). the fact is, you take it on faith that the stuff "scientists"reports is true without a second thought, but you persecute other people who don't share the same belief of the very thing you are doing. So, unless you know without a doubt that what you say is "fact" is indeed true, well. you know where to shove it. ;)

[butterfly]

The burdon of proof is on you. I don't know, prehaps you'll change your mind one day when you need an organ transplant.

[FuckYoCouch]

The burdon of proof is on you. I don't know, prehaps you'll change your mind one day when you need an organ transplant.

if the body i was given Fails, then it is my time. i wont argue the point.

[butterfly]

What if it was a member of your family, or somebody you loved and they asked for your advice? Would you encourage them to get the transplant or ensure them it's their time?

[manic expression]

also, there is no Pre Christians, as Adam and Eve were the first.

Adam and Eve were not Christians at all. First of all, there's absolutely nothing to suggest they ever existed. Second, even if they did exist exactly as the Bible tells it, they still weren't Christians. To be a Christian, one must put faith in Christ, who would come a bit later. So no, they were "pre-Christians", by any logical definition.

[FuckYoCouch]

What if it was a member of your family, or somebody you loved and they asked for your advice? Would you encourage them to get the transplant or ensure them it's their time?

i guess it really depends on what stage in life a person is in.

[FuckYoCouch]

Adam and Eve were not Christians at all. First of all, there's absolutely nothing to suggest they ever existed. Second, even if they did exist exactly as the Bible tells it, they still weren't Christians. To be a Christian, one must put faith in Christ, who would come a bit later. So no, they were "pre-Christians", by any logical definition.


generally Seeing is Believing, So to see god im assuming they believed in him, therefor, Yes. they were Christians

[Rebel_Serigan]

I love Christians who think they did stuff first. The problem is they didn't do anything first. The story of Jesus as a whole is an big ole cluster of 13 different pegan myths (most of which are Egyptian) and all other stories in the bible are just control schemes and bastardizations of older pegan and pre-Christian monotheistic orders. Christianity is the worlds greatest proprieter of propganda, not to mension the greatest iron fist of conformity. I used to be a Christian, oh yeah BIG time, then i guess I started thiningand researching, so the downfall of Religion in general in knowledge. In fact if you proved that God was real he would cease to exist. As with all religion it is based off of faith. There for if we KNOW he lives then no one has faith, funny isn't it?

(BTW I converted to Lucifarianism just to clear things up. :) )

[FuckYoCouch]

I love Christians who think they did stuff first. The problem is they didn't do anything first. The story of Jesus as a whole is an big ole cluster of 13 different pegan myths (most of which are Egyptian) and all other stories in the bible are just control schemes and bastardizations of older pegan and pre-Christian monotheistic orders. Christianity is the worlds greatest proprieter of propganda, not to mension the greatest iron fist of conformity. I used to be a Christian, oh yeah BIG time, then i guess I started thiningand researching, so the downfall of Religion in general in knowledge. In fact if you proved that God was real he would cease to exist. As with all religion it is based off of faith. There for if we KNOW he lives then no one has faith, funny isn't it?

(BTW I converted to Lucifarianism just to clear things up. :) )


Knowing God Exists isnt the only thing Christians have faith in. so no, you are wrong.

[Rebel_Serigan]

You are right, I am sorry, although I am pretty sure that the religion's cornerstone is around Mr. Magicskyghost so i think removing said corner stone would cause a collapse. Not to mension your little argument for Lucy not being the first human was "Well she's not." I am sorry but that is like a little kid play ground argument, you might as well just say "NUH-UH!" until you have at least some kind of proof you might want to ease back on the whole meaningless argument, unless of course you think science is from the Devil. (Hardy laugher)

[FuckYoCouch]

You are right, I am sorry, although I am pretty sure that the religion's cornerstone is around Mr. Magicskyghost so i think removing said corner stone would cause a collapse. Not to mension your little argument for Lucy not being the first human was "Well she's not." I am sorry but that is like a little kid play ground argument, you might as well just say "NUH-UH!" until you have at least some kind of proof you might want to ease back on the whole meaningless argument, unless of course you think science is from the Devil. (Hardy laugher)

Science has it uses, but of course, there are times, when faith of the people who do the thinking of people like you, unknowingly present misinformation as fact , and when they find their mistake, they fix it, and present that as fact, until they find another mistake, and fix it, and present THAT as fact. :mellow:

[manic expression]

generally Seeing is Believing, So to see god im assuming they believed in him, therefor, Yes. they were Christians

No, that's not how it works. The whole point of Christianity is that Jesus is supposed to die for our sins. If he hadn't died yet, there's no Christianity. That's the deal. The old testament prophets, who all received divine influence, are considered Jewish, not Christian, because Christianity was an impossibility for their time and place.

[FuckYoCouch]

No, that's not how it works. The whole point of Christianity is that Jesus is supposed to die for our sins. If he hadn't died yet, there's no Christianity. That's the deal. The old testament prophets, who all received divine influence, are considered Jewish, not Christian, because Christianity was an impossibility for their time and place.


well see there is this THing Called the Trinity, that says they are All One. so technically, Yes. Adam and Ever were Christians. ;) technically speaking of course. since logic is the only thing that works around these places. :thumbup:

[butterfly]

That's called development in the scientific sense. When applied to the bible it's personal convenience.

[Rebel_Serigan]

uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh, duh. In case you weren't paying attension in science class that is how the scientific method works, here I'll break it down.

Scientific Method: Step one: Find a problem/question. Step two: form a hypothesis. Step three: gather data. Step four: test hypothesis. Step five: analyze results. Step six: Deciede wiether you were right or wrong and test it all again in order to prove it right.

There, make sense now? Isn't that magical? We do things again if the first time we are wrong, because we don't like being wrong. You Christians found a damn good system of social control and rolled with it, kudos to the guy who made it because he makes Stalin and Hitler look like propganda novices. You know what? I bet the guys who wrote the bible had more than one draft because you don't get the perfect guide to pacifying the masses in one shot.

[FuckYoCouch]

That's called development in the scientific sense. When applied to the bible it's personal convenience.


i know. i was trying to sound sarcastic.

[butterfly]

Not feeling the sarcasm but ok.

[manic expression]

well see there is this THing Called the Trinity, that says they are All One. so technically, Yes. Adam and Ever were Christians. ;) technically speaking of course. since logic is the only thing that works around these places. :thumbup:

The Trinity has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Jesus hadn't been born at the time, and more importantly he hadn't died for any sins, and so Christianity could not logically exist. Please pay attention to the issue instead of dancing around it.

By the way, you would do well to remember what we're talking about here when you bring up the Trinity.

[FuckYoCouch]

Not feeling the sarcasm but ok.

thats not what i was trying to sound sarcastic about

[FuckYoCouch]

The Trinity has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Jesus hadn't been born at the time, and more importantly he hadn't died for any sins, and so Christianity could not logically exist. Please pay attention to the issue instead of dancing around it.

By the way, you would do well to remember what we're talking about here when you bring up the Trinity.

i realize the trinity has nothing to do with what we're talking about. and i realize now tat i was wrong. which is why i admitted to sarcasm when i was talking about the trinity. im not dancing around anything.

[Coggeh]

Science has it uses, but of course, there are times, when faith of the people who do the thinking of people like you, unknowingly present misinformation as fact , and when they find their mistake, they fix it, and present that as fact, until they find another mistake, and fix it, and present THAT as fact. :mellow:
Its called the scientific method , scientists acknowledge their mistakes and mistakes only lead to progression in science . Its constantly changing and re-examining its conclusions.

Whats this about adam and eve ? do you really take that literally ? let me guess .. the earth is 6000 years old too right?:huh:

[FuckYoCouch]

Its called the scientific method , scientists acknowledge their mistakes and mistakes only lead to progression in science . Its constantly changing and re-examining its conclusions.

Whats this about adam and eve ? do you really take that literally ? let me guess .. the earth is 6000 years old too right?:huh:

and what if i do? i find it really fucking retarded to have to re evaluate my beliefs every time a scientist realizes he fucked up. makes it seem like we're all just being led around the barnyard like sheep.

[Decolonize The Left]

and what if i do? i find it really fucking retarded to have to re evaluate my beliefs every time a scientist realizes he fucked up. makes it seem like we're all just being led around the barnyard like sheep.

:crying: Aww... do you want a tissue?

You get upset when scientists correct themselves?

Christians didn't really feel like questioning themselves, and correcting themselves, and so they strapped innocent people to stakes and set them on fire. I bet these people were a wee bit more upset than you are huh? No, wait, they were to busy having their fleshed scorched and melted to be 'upset'... they were screaming.

So you have to re-evaluate your beliefs?

Try giving back life to all the cold blooded murders committed in the name of your religion.

And you feel like science leads us around like sheep? Really? What about a religion which has absolutely no evidence or proof for it's validity leading people around?

A 'sheep' is a blind follower - there is no finer definition for the religious individual. Just look at your responses here. You blindly adhere to your belief system despite numerous rational and logical argument tearing it to shreds.

- August

[Jazzratt]

i realize the trinity has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Uh. Actually it has a lot to do with the topic at hand. It's easily the most striking aspect of pagan beliefs present in christianity. The number 3 has been important in various religions and that's to mention the various triadic deities of past religions.


and what if i do?

Then you're a cretin. It's absolutely sodding imbecilic to take something like that as true without a shred of evidence.


i find it really fucking retarded to have to re evaluate my beliefs every time a scientist realizes he fucked up.

Why? true knowledge can only be gained by correcting previous errors and re-evaluating principles. Even the most devout of christians have recognised and done this; it's the reason we no longer believe that the sun revolves around the earth. What's unbearably stupid is maintaining a belief in the face of evidence to the contrary and down that road lies stagnation and the inquisition.


makes it seem like we're all just being led around the barnyard like sheep.

Don't be daft. If people thought of scientists like platonic philosopher-kings you might have a point, but we don't so you don't. But before you call others 'sheep' perhaps you should wonder, to be clichéd why vicars have 'flocks'.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Lets turn the question on its head...

What part of Christianity is not derived from Paganism?

[Glorious Union]

Christianity is Paganism with rules about sex.

[Oneironaut]

Just in addition, christianity also took large influences from:

Judaism: God's chosen people idea which has lead to intolerance in many circumstances

Stoic philosophy: the idea of the universal state, universal solidarity, humanity is all one, the idea that there exists some source of reason behind reality that man can grow to understand, liberty is an inner state of man and can exist outside of material reality

Roman religion: the whole ceremony idea, huge churches, priests in crazy clothes, the external aspects of the religion

Gnosticism: the idea of being the enlightened people who had attained the knowledge of the universe, the depreciation of public life and politics

[Oneironaut]

Oh yeah and a little more about the trinity...

Emperor Constantine made a pact with a church but asked for some sort of solid doctrine. Amongst all the different heresies that existed at that time, four were the most powerful: Matthew (Rome) Mark (Constantinople) Luke (Jerusalem) and John (Alexandria). These separate heresies were able to come to a sort of broad consensus except in a few places. The couldn't come to the conclusion whether Jesus was divine or human or if he was made flesh and walked on Earth. Each heresy held their own view on the subject. So how did they eventually compromise? Well, they simply said Jesus was all of these things: divine (father), human (son), and a "wind" of enlightenment (spirit).

[synthesis]

Lets turn the question on its head...

What part of Christianity is not derived from Paganism?

Monotheism. It's more relevant than you might think.

(I'm not interesting in arguing about whether the Trinity is polytheistic - Christians consider themselves to be monotheists and that's what's important here.)