Why nothing has happened yet

[Bitter Ashes]

So, I'm sat here in a capitalist country. How come?
Well, I've not seen any popular majority of revolutanary communists bieng violently supressed by the state, yet.
So, what is the cause?
I know there's two main ideas around now, that either the vast majority of the proletrians need to rise up in one go, or a vanguard needs to take the first steps and snowball up more revolutonaries as it goes. *crosses her fingers and hopes she's got that right*
So, if the whole of the proleterians need to rise up, wouldnt they first need to be informed and encouraged to question before they're likely to do anything along the lines of the first model?
The second model, wouldnt that involve that the vanguard were taking a more active part, either due to choice, or lack of numbers?
In both cases, is the real root cause simply that not enough people are getting out there and encouraging thier fellow proleterians to question what's going on and inform them of what they can do to change things? If so, what's prevented us all from going to the pubs, chatting ammoungst our friends and basicly going viral with the message to gain more support?
I think I'm in support, but nobody has ever talked to me about the subject of communism with any seriousness, ever, before I came here and when you think that I had to find this place by accident and it took 3 days of me spending maybe 4 hours a day around here for me to see that maybe you guys have a point, does that not suggest there is a serious problem with getting people to see your point of view?

[ZeroNowhere]

School, the media, labour fakirs and politicians. At least, in the US and UK. Though other factors come into play, of course, but those are generally the major ones. For example, the BNP manage to channel frustration within the white working class against immigrants, etc.
Of course, the socialist movement can also be said to be a cause, though I'd say that it wasn't as major a cause as the above. For example, the above causes are generally a major cause of the socialist movement weakening in the first place, leading to such stuff as the SLP not being able to afford to put out 'The People' any more, and such. I'd say that if we at least united for a publication, in which we could discuss our issues and debate and such, or 'teach the debate' to use a rather abused term, though there's no reason to not include science columns, etc. Hell, we could probably manage to put out a daily (or at least weekly) paper if we wanted. I'm not suggesting a 'united front' or anything, but that would probably help.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

I don't know much about the UK, but thanks to the media and school, socialism and communism are pretty much the most despised words in the US. You can't turn on the news without hearing something about Obama being an evil socialist, and you can't go to school without being told communism means a totalitarian dictatorship where your job is picked for you and you're forced to be like everybody else. They have the examples of the failures of so-called socialist states on their side as well. If you bring up the words socialism or communism you're pretty much going to be ignored because people have been so brainwashed to think that it's evil. I guess people voting for Obama despite everyone calling him a socialist is a little progress, though.

[Decolonize The Left]

So, I'm sat here in a capitalist country. How come?

Presumably because you were born there, or perhaps you moved there?


Well, I've not seen any popular majority of revolutanary communists bieng violently supressed by the state, yet.
So, what is the cause?

The cause of what? I'm confused.


I know there's two main ideas around now, that either the vast majority of the proletrians need to rise up in one go, or a vanguard needs to take the first steps and snowball up more revolutonaries as it goes. *crosses her fingers and hopes she's got that right*

As a simplistic description of possible revolutionary situations, that'll do.


So, if the whole of the proleterians need to rise up, wouldnt they first need to be informed and encouraged to question before they're likely to do anything along the lines of the first model?

Basically, in order for the proletariat class to rise up and overthrow the capitalist class, they must be highly class conscious and organized. This means that they must identify, first and foremost, as the proletariat. It also means that they must have high levels of solidarity whereby 'an injury to one is an injury to all.'


The second model, wouldnt that involve that the vanguard were taking a more active part, either due to choice, or lack of numbers?

It's generally been due to both - the vanguard supposedly arises due to necessity. I am not a fan of the vanguard model and so I'll leave it at that.


In both cases, is the real root cause simply that not enough people are getting out there and encouraging thier fellow proleterians to question what's going on and inform them of what they can do to change things? If so, what's prevented us all from going to the pubs, chatting ammoungst our friends and basicly going viral with the message to gain more support?

Let's be clear: the revolution is not in the near future. What we speak of is a global working-class movement aimed at uprooting an entire economic (and by extension: political and social) system.

The work of revolutionaries today is simple: to raise class consciousness. This can be done any number of ways, including 'talking at a pub.'


I think I'm in support, but nobody has ever talked to me about the subject of communism with any seriousness, ever, before I came here and when you think that I had to find this place by accident and it took 3 days of me spending maybe 4 hours a day around here for me to see that maybe you guys have a point, does that not suggest there is a serious problem with getting people to see your point of view?

The problem is not 'seeing our point of view.' Our point of view is a materialist one, visible to anyone who reflects upon their situation.

The problem is in the divided reality of the working class: the capitalist system which suppresses working class organization, the social system which divides the working class according to race, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, etc.., and the political system which blinds and pacifies the working class with reform.

I'm pleased you have taken an interest in this forum. It is a source of great amounts of knowledge, information, and development. Use it well (as you already are).

- August

[walterrich]

Well, I only have two posts (three now, yay!), and I am still in the middle of fully grasping Marxism, but I can tell you of my own experiences (I'm from the UK, a state supposedly lead by a Democratic Socialist party).

Whenever Communism pops up in a conversation with school friends it always boils down to "it's too extreme to suggest that a janitor should earn as much as a doctor," "the USSR was oppressive," "China is oppressive" and "everyone equal? Too utopian. People are dicks. End of."

Countering these arguments is like talking to a brick wall. We are told from the minute we learn of the existence of economics that Communism is bad and stupid.


It's incredibly difficult to get around this sort of indoctrination.



It's taken a LOT of work just to convince myself that I MIGHT be a Marxist. Curse you, New Labour!

[kiki75]

In both cases, is the real root cause simply that not enough people are getting out there and encouraging thier fellow proleterians to question what's going on and inform them of what they can do to change things?
Probably.

If so, what's prevented us all from going to the pubs, chatting ammoungst our friends and basicly going viral with the message to gain more support?
I imagine television and internet service are the main culprits/excuses.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Well, I've not seen any popular majority of revolutanary communists bieng violently supressed by the state, yet.
So, what is the cause?

We need to wait for the right conditions before leading a revolution. It helps if there's already some unrest among the workers. Venezuela is a good example.