Why aren't fascists allowed in here?

[Miscreant]

Not that I want to bring a bunch in, but what's the point of an opposing ideologies section if you're not going to include people who really oppose you? It's not like they can post in any other part of this forum. RevLeft gets a skewed picture with the most radical part of the opposite end of the spectrum cut off. They probably wouldn't extend the same liberties to us, but whatever, different opinions make for more interesting discussion and with so many leftists here fascists would be like a fresh breeze.

[RedAnarchist]

This site is based in Germany, so by law no fascists are allowed.

[Miscreant]

We could break the law in the name of free speech.

[RedAnarchist]

But then the site would get shut down just so some fascists could post on our forum.

[Miscreant]

Your name is RedAnarchist. You should be pushing for this harder than I am.

[Knight of Cydonia]

firstly, Miscreant,may i ask why that you asking about this shit?do you want many of your fascist friend to join this board and say anything about their ideology?:closedeyes:

oh dear, can you ever imagine what will happen to this board?

there'll be trolling and flaming and shit like that fulfilling the whole thread on this forum site. we don't want that! and that's why we say *no fascists*.

understood?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Your name is RedAnarchist. You should be pushing for this harder than I am.

Umm, no. As an anarchist he has no obligation whatsoever to struggle for the free speech of fascists, especially on website dedicated to facilitating discussion between leftists.

Thanks for playing.

[#FF0000]

Your name is RedAnarchist. You should be pushing for this harder than I am.

See Noxion's post.

Also, the site would get shut down. I care about the site more than I do the viewpoints of idiots.

[scarletghoul]

Ha, yes, fascist oppinions are certainly worth losing this site for

[casper]

thats interesting, i didn't know it was illegal in Germany to allow discussion that included fascist people taking part. true though, its not worth getting shut down, i'll rather have this site up and just go to storm front if i really wanted the bullshit.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Not that I want to bring a bunch in, but what's the point of an opposing ideologies section if you're not going to include people who really oppose you? It's not like they can post in any other part of this forum. RevLeft gets a skewed picture with the most radical part of the opposite end of the spectrum cut off. They probably wouldn't extend the same liberties to us, but whatever, different opinions make for more interesting discussion and with so many leftists here fascists would be like a fresh breeze.

There are different opinions on this matter. Some people think fascists don't serve civil liberties and free speech because fascism (in and of itself) is a detriment to society. Allowing fascism to exist, from this perspective, is the equivalent (to a lesser extent) to allowing racism to exist. I don't know the extent of this position so I can't defend it.

The other position (which I would take) is the following. We want to be able to discuss radical left-wing politics with like-minded people. Imagine this to get our perspective. You're against racism before slaves are freed. You want to discuss how society should deal with slaves once they are freed, but 90% of people you encounter don't want to free slaves at all. So before you can discuss the topic you want to discuss (how to deal with slaves once they are freed), you have to try to convince 90% of people that slavery is wrong. In many cases, this will be unproductive.

There is a value in letting other people speak their opinions. There are other political forums and a general society (outside this forums) that allows a diversity of opinion to exist. When it comes time for us to discuss specific issues pertaining to radical leftist thought, however, many of us want to debate with people who already agree about the fundamentals. It's nothing personal.

[Kenshiro]

to me its fairly obvious that leftists, struggling for the removal of the state etc would rather not let other leftists or left enthusiasts be exposed to fascist ideals lest they want more fascists, and a stronger state.

funnily enough the forum has had the opposite effect on me and other intellectuals. i.e. calling someone an idiot because of their ideology exposes the stupidity of the leftists that use this site... failing to acknowledge a powerful contempory ideology and simply labelling it stupid makes me curious.

in other words, i think "meh" when i hear chomsky articulate about fascism but i go "hmmmm......" when i hear the people of this site call them stupid and defend communism while stoicly disregarding fascism. what are you afraid of?

[Kenshiro]

There are other political forums and a general society (outside this forums) that allows a diversity of opinion to exist. When it comes time for us to discuss specific issues pertaining to radical leftist thought, however, many of us want to debate with people who already agree about the fundamentals. It's nothing personal.

if you know of any forums that allow free speech between radicals, could you recommend me some?

[More Fire for the People]

There are elaborate and elegant though disturbing forms of fascist thought [ aka Italian futurism ] that I'd glady debate with. However, I hate fascists. I think they're scum and nine-tenths of them cannot be changed. So for one, they're un-debatle.

Fascists, in all instances, and democratic capitalists, in most instances, use violent measures against communist. Would a Jewish resistance group allow Nazis into their discussion circles? Would Chinese revolutionaries allow Change Kai-Shekists into their inner circle to debate? No. So they're un-permissible.

Finally, most governments have outlawed the right to free speech permitted to fascists including Germany, where this site is hosted. So they're illegal.

These factors considered, they are not allowed here.

[Miscreant]

There is a value in letting other people speak their opinions. There are other political forums and a general society (outside this forums) that allows a diversity of opinion to exist. When it comes time for us to discuss specific issues pertaining to radical leftist thought, however, many of us want to debate with people who already agree about the fundamentals. It's nothing personal.

This is the opposing viewpoints section, for people who disagree about the fundamentals. And I think it is personal, but sometimes people hate fascists more than they love fairness.

I'd rather let fascists in to discuss than capitalists. Capitalists are boring. All they want is money. At least fascists are willing to fight for something beyond their own self interest.

[Miscreant]

Finally, most governments have outlawed the right to free speech permitted to fascists including Germany, where this site is hosted. So they're illegal.

I guess I have to cede to that.

[Revolutionary Youth]

calling someone an idiot because of their ideology exposes the stupidity of the leftists that use this site
If I'm not mistaken, it was you who addressed other people "idiot" and "bigger idiot" first in your thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/why-has-overpopulation-t101428/index.html) about overpopulation.

... failing to acknowledge a powerful contempory ideology and simply labelling it stupid makes me curious.

Why do you think it's powerful?:confused:

in other words, i think "meh" when i hear chomsky articulate about fascism but i go "hmmmm......" when i hear the people of this site call them stupid and defend communism while stoicly disregarding fascism. what are you afraid of?
Do you have any point to defend fascism, friend?
Well, maybe all the words you said tell us more about you than us.;)

[#FF0000]

funnily enough the forum has had the opposite effect on me and other intellectuals. i.e. calling someone an idiot because of their ideology exposes the stupidity of the leftists that use this site...

Did you not, in your first posts on this very site do the exact same thing? You did. And you didn't even argue. You threw a damn hissy-fit over the fact that we did not subscribe to your silly views on overpopulation. I also recall people bringing out references and facts, and you just continuing carrying on.


failing to acknowledge a powerful contempory ideology

It's like I'm really in 1920!

(neither communism nor fascism are "powerful" nowadays, boyo)


in other words, i think "meh" when i hear chomsky articulate about fascism but i go "hmmmm......" when i hear the people of this site call them stupid and defend communism while stoicly disregarding fascism. what are you afraid of?

Nothing. I just think they're idiots. It's not as if this is a serious discussion on Fascism. You'd be getting a little more than "lol they're dumb" from me if it was.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

We could break the law in the name of free speech.

Since when did anarchists demand free speech in any and all websites?

I've argued in favor of allowing non-racist fascists make their point before - as have many others. Don't think it hasn't been contested.

[Kenshiro]

If I'm not mistaken, it was you who addressed other people "idiot" and "bigger idiot" first in your thread about overpopulation.

Why do you think it's powerful?:confused:

Do you have any point to defend fascism, friend?
Well, maybe all the words you said tell us more about you than us.;)


Did you not, in your first posts on this very site do the exact same thing? You did. And you didn't even argue. You threw a damn hissy-fit over the fact that we did not subscribe to your silly views on overpopulation. I also recall people bringing out references and facts, and you just continuing carrying on.



It's like I'm really in 1920!

(neither communism nor fascism are "powerful" nowadays, boyo)



Nothing. I just think they're idiots. It's not as if this is a serious discussion on Fascism. You'd be getting a little more than "lol they're dumb" from me if it was.

the reason i called them idiots has nothing to do with their ideology. nothing.

they are idiots because they made excuses not to answer my question and instead said "your idea sounds like the idea rich people use" etc thus providing no answer.

fascism isnt powerful?

1. rallies, collectives, groups all across the globe

2. strong communities

3. some politicians can be loosely called "fascist" or far right

4. swastika is banned in germany

5. its banned in this forum?

im not a fascist and i dont defend fascism.

there isnt much serious discussion on revleft at all. there are some awesome posts here and there and some good information sources but most of the stuff in OI is garbage.

Kenshiro: i think the world is overpopulated

Forum Moderator: well then why dont you kill yourself LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL

[Kenshiro]

Since when did anarchists demand free speech in any and all websites?

I've argued in favor of allowing non-racist fascists make their point before - as have many others. Don't think it hasn't been contested.


its funny because banning fascists from using this forum, restricting somebody because of their ideology or banning pro-lifers from using the forum etc is a very fascist thing to do. but dont tell the populist neoliberal democratic FREE SPEECH anarchists that their heads might explode!

[Plagueround]

its funny because banning fascists from using this forum, restricting somebody because of their ideology or banning pro-lifers from using the forum etc is a very fascist thing to do. but dont tell the populist neoliberal democratic FREE SPEECH anarchists that their heads might explode!

There is a difference between supporting free speech and allowing people to sabotage, clutter, and ruin discussion on a website with a particular focus. Say, for example, I go to a website for model car enthusiasts and all my posts are telling them how much model cars are a fucking nerdy waste of time. I am now a disruption to a private forum with a particular purpose. In an effort to focus the discussion and continue the enjoyment and usage by model car enthusiasts, I would likely be warned, suspended, or banned. This is not an infringement on my free speech rights, this is the proprietors of the forum not allowing someone to harass their members and destroy the intended purpose of the forum. I'd say we're no more fascists than model car enthusiasts. (Now that I mention it, I really don't know anything about model cars...I wonder if such a forum exists...hmmmm).

This site is already extremely generous in what it will and won't allow, and not many forums will build a special section specifically made for people who disagree with us and can tell us how much we all suck. If you genuinely have a problem because no one jumped up and supported your ideas and aren't here to post anything constructive without hurling constant (and baseless) insults, I would suggest leaving.

As a side note, your commentary on anarchists sounds quite familiar. You've posted here before, haven't you?

[Qayin]

Fascists have their own forums.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Why hasnt this being trashed

its just not going to happen.

[welshboy]

Not that I want to bring a bunch in, but what's the point of an opposing ideologies section if you're not going to include people who really oppose you? It's not like they can post in any other part of this forum. RevLeft gets a skewed picture with the most radical part of the opposite end of the spectrum cut off. They probably wouldn't extend the same liberties to us, but whatever, different opinions make for more interesting discussion and with so many leftists here fascists would be like a fresh breeze.
No platform.

[Killfacer]

Because all they do is spam the board and chat rubbish until every conversation has devolved into everyone being outraged by their stupid ideas.

[Kenshiro]

There is a difference between supporting free speech and allowing people to sabotage, clutter, and ruin discussion on a website with a particular focus. Say, for example, I go to a website for model car enthusiasts and all my posts are telling them how much model cars are a fucking nerdy waste of time. I am now a disruption to a private forum with a particular purpose. In an effort to focus the discussion and continue the enjoyment and usage by model car enthusiasts, I would likely be warned, suspended, or banned. This is not an infringement on my free speech rights, this is the proprietors of the forum not allowing someone to harass their members and destroy the intended purpose of the forum. I'd say we're no more fascists than model car enthusiasts. (Now that I mention it, I really don't know anything about model cars...I wonder if such a forum exists...hmmmm).

This site is already extremely generous in what it will and won't allow, and not many forums will build a special section specifically made for people who disagree with us and can tell us how much we all suck. If you genuinely have a problem because no one jumped up and supported your ideas and aren't here to post anything constructive without hurling constant (and baseless) insults, I would suggest leaving.

As a side note, your commentary on anarchists sounds quite familiar. You've posted here before, haven't you?

your analogy makes sense if this were a forum based on model car society, and i were trolling you all about how model cars are nerdy and shit.

but for a topic so wide reaching as politics, it seems odd to me not to include, even in the designated forum for differing opinions, perhaps the most "opposing" of all ideologies to communism. at least the one most socially manifest.

back to the model car forum analogy... if i posted a few images of train seat covers in a car seat cover thread, that would be okay wouldnt it?

i think it would make for more interesting discussion. i dont care though, but i stand by my belief that this rule was created more to stop propaganda than the risk of fascist trolling the site. how embarrassing would it be if a fascist came in and ripped the moderators to shreds with his arguments?

i havent a problem with the fact nobody liked my ideas so much as the fact the responses were weak and unsatisfactory response i got. im actually a capitalist, to clarify, but im not here to push any agenda. rather, i seek truth aggressively.

my insults are hardly baseless as much as they are even insults. the post-modern neoliberal populist paradigm is the belief that all people are equal and you can do what you want save doing something that infringes on another person's liberty. it just saddens me there arent any or there are very few chompskys on this board.

[Dr Mindbender]

Not that I want to bring a bunch in, but what's the point of an opposing ideologies section if you're not going to include people who really oppose you? It's not like they can post in any other part of this forum. RevLeft gets a skewed picture with the most radical part of the opposite end of the spectrum cut off. They probably wouldn't extend the same liberties to us, but whatever, different opinions make for more interesting discussion and with so many leftists here fascists would be like a fresh breeze.

...because aside from the legalities as other people have mentioned, the forum operates a no-platform policy for fascists and rightly so IMO.

By debating with fascists we legitimise their politics.

[Robert]

the belief that all people are equal

I think you're denigrating egalitarianism, which you may juxtapose against elitism, which isn't synonymous with fascism.

[Kenshiro]

...because aside from the legalities as other people have mentioned, the forum operates a no-platform policy for fascists and rightly so IMO.

By debating with fascists we legitimise their politics.

another way to look at it is that you empower them by banning them. they were really so full of shit like a lot of people here like to say so easily, then it should be easy to pound them in the forums. but theres no platform for that.

[Jazzratt]

Oh for fuck's sake. Do we need to go over this again?