= South Florida Cuban exiles ... + Why their hatred for Che Guevara ?

[John Lenin]

SOUTH FLORIDA aka (Calle-Ochoville / Little Havana) is populated by:


- The brutal dictator Batista’s former HENCHMEN & torturers (many of whom escaped the firing squads they should have gotten).


- The family members of Batista’s goons, BRAC secret police, and WAR CRIMINALS who killed 20,000 Cubans (a few hundred of which did get the firing squad http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/fighting/fight10.gif at La Cabana after a revolutionary tribunal process Che Guevara oversaw).


= See archived news reel video:
wUPqsh52QPc


- The former MAFIA (and their relatives) who ran Cuba as America's W#orehouse and Casino. There is a reason that pre-Castro Cuba was the favorite hangout for mobsters Meyer Lansky, Santo Trafficante, and Lucky Luciano.
= See the new book: "How the Mob Owned Cuba and Then Lost It to the Revolution" By T.J. English


- Former very wealthy and still current http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/basic2/royal.gif OLIGARCHS who enjoyed the de facto slave labor Batista's Cuba afforded them who are mad that their latifundios & haciendas were confiscated (pre Castro, 1 % owned 46 % of all the land).


- Mostly WHITE Cubans (although the majority of the island is mulatto), Miami is populated with the white Cubans who did not want to live in a racially equal society (notice how the blacks don't leave on rafts, that's because they know it’s worse in the U.S. for them where they won’t receive free lodging, healthcare, food, education, transportation etc).


- Angry bitter http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/sad/sad7.gif GUSANOS (worms) who only know what their grandparents told them ... most have never set foot in Cuba and only believe the lies of old formerly wealthy dying geriatrics, insane right-wing blogs, or the ramblings of their cowardly grandpas who got their a$$ kicked at the Bay of Pigs and were exchanged in shame by Fidel for baby food.http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/basic2/biggrin.gif


- Former CRIMINALS from Castro's jails who he personally released during the Mariel Boatlift in 1980 (see Scarface) in response to Jimmy Carter's invitation for their arrival.


- Recent opportunistic white PARASITE arrivals that fled after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, fleeing the difficult economic situation in Cuba at the time, that had relatives in Miami and realized they could milk the anti-Castro cartel for a good life and U.S. tax payer funds.


- Hucksters, LIARS, frauds, and CIA bootlickers - who realize what they do is false but the $$$ is so good in deposing Communist Cuba. America and their ‘red scare’ mentality heap money on these hacks to create libelous lies about Cuba (see the Cuban American National Foundation [CANF])


- Youthful political naïve $HIT KICKERS who actually believe all the CIA sponsored clap trap about “freedom”, “democracy”, etc while overwhelmingly voting for cretins like Bush who destroy everyone of these concepts they supposedly hold dear. They're so busy fawning over the immature ramblings of blogger Yoani Sanchez, Babalu blog, or Radio Marti, that they miss the delicious irony that the only “Gulag” in Cuba is the U.S. one at Gitmo which they support having. http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/misc/misc1.gif


- http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/evilgrin/evil2.gif TERRORISTS and CIA backed killers, the likes of Luis Posada Carriles ("South America's Bin Laden" who blew up Cubana Flight 455 in 1976), Orlando Bosch (his partner in crime), Felix Rodriguez (point man for Oliver North in Iran/Contra, trained central American death squads, ordered execution of Che Guevara), Alpha 66, Brigade 2506, etc - they all attack Cuba, blow up hotel lobbies, hijack ferries and planes, strafe Cuban beaches with gun fire, drop poisonous pathogens on Cuban crops, poison Cuban water supplies, etc while being harbored in Miami with U.S. $$$ --- Go to Versailles restaurant in Miami where these assassins will be sitting at the best table.


- The http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/angry/angry7.gif SPOILED CHILDREN of all of these scumbags who reap the rewards of an exploitive capitalist system which allows their parents to underpay their fellow darker skinned Hispanics and Haitian laborers in Miami.


= See VIDEO below of the perfect example of one of these spoiled exile brats "Audrey" who now live in Miami:
90HhZ-pyC2Y


* I lived for many years in Miami so this is based on first hand experience (I’ve also been to Cuba many times)



Hasta la Victoria Siempre :che:

[hugsandmarxism]

The http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/angry/angry7.gif SPOILED CHILDREN of all of these scumbags who reap the rewards of an exploitive capitalist system which allows their parents to underpay their fellow darker skinned Hispanics and Haitian laborers in Miami.

90HhZ-pyC2Y



Well that made me angry. :cursing: Bourgeoisie brat.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I have to input due to my relationship with many Cuban exile. (even my step-father is a Cuban exile) Some are actually apathetic and does not hate Fidel, but came here BECAUSE of their relatives as my stepfather wanted to see his family. I have to say many gusano don't actually take Fidel seriously and are loving their horrendous lifestyle. I also have some Cuban friends that wanted to go back but cant because of political repression and does demand to lift embargo and let them visit the country whenever they want. I even convert one of my Cuban-American friend to socialist despite his reactionary parent.

It is reductism(how to spell?) to see all exile as reactionary. Leaving the island also meant for few for the adventure outside the world. It is just that the bourgeoisie media won't coverage the other side of Cuban exile that will get stuck here for the rest of their life.

[More Fire for the People]

You forgot people who left in the 1990s because of the economic crisis triggered by the Soviet collapse. These people are upset with Cuba but not anti-communist in the strictest sense.

[John Lenin]

You forgot people who left in the 1990s because of the economic crisis triggered by the Soviet collapse.

No I didn't

...



- Recent opportunistic white PARASITE arrivals that fled after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, fleeing the difficult economic situation in Cuba at the time, that had relatives in Miami and realized they could milk the anti-Castro cartel for a good life and U.S. tax payer funds.

[John Lenin]

(my step-father is a Cuban exile)
Ever think that may cause a personal bias in the way you see the situation ?




It is reductism(how to spell?) to see all exile as reactionary.

Of course not ALL are ... only about 90 - 95 %

I know a young exile whose parents brought him here as a teenager, and he considers himself a Marxist and speaks out in favor of Fidel .... despite his reactionary parents. However I wouldn't even consider himself an "exile" in this discussion - if anything he is a "HOSTAGE" who is now stuck in the U.S.

[Raúl Duke]

I lived in Miami. One of the children of cuban exiles is an anarchist friend of mine.
They aren't all reactionary.

I also meet a few people who were "fidelistas" although in truth they weren't politically serious.

Although, for the rest I do quite agree. Especially/specifically the older generation.

But the people you should be worried about now is the current exiles from "Venezuela".

A question...are you also hispanic? What parts of Miami did you live in?

[Revy]

I agree that the right-wing exiles can be very disgusting. But your post left a lot to be desired, portraying everyone who left Cuba as scum, criminals, rich, etc.

[More Fire for the People]

Right, because wanting to eat food and sleep in a bed is reactionary. :rolleyes:

[John Lenin]

What parts of Miami did you live in?
All over, near Jackson Memorial, The Orange Bowl, MIA
What about you ?



right-wing exiles can be very disgusting.
... Which is my point



Right, because wanting to eat food and sleep in a bed is reactionary.
What site am I on?

All Cubans have a bed to sleep on (although yes it may not be a tempurpedic 3000 with automated heat censors) and food to eat (although yes it pales in comparison to the Double Whopper with Cheese, & XL large curly cheese fries with strawberry shake) you had for lunch this morning from your local shit-box fast food joint.

[More Fire for the People]

What site am I on?
Apparently, one that allows dumbasses in. all cuban americans arre baed lulz lulz. anyone whu laeves cuba is baed!

[John Lenin]

Apparently, one that allows dumbasses in. all cuban americans arre baed lulz lulz. anyone whu laeves cuba is baed!
It seems I must've hit a sore spot.

I apologize for not correctly estimating the emotional sensitivity of my audience.

[More Fire for the People]

It seems you think Cuban American proletarians are not proletarians via their cultural and political attitude. Might as well rule out white trash from Appalachia and the Ozarks. Or Hmong and Cambodian emigres. But I see how that might not be very clear from your suburban household with two cars in the garage and a swimming pool out back.

[Raúl Duke]

I lived in Doral...where I meet many people from Venezuela.
The Venezuelan expatriates should be more of an issue then these Cuban exiles/et. al.
Also, in my experience (I could be wrong) but many of these Venezuelan expatriates are bourgeois or petit-bourgeois.
Some/many (i.e. Hialeah is called the "cuban ghetto") of the cuban exiles are proles...although most of my experience with Cubans in Miami have been with petit-bourgeoisie Cubans.

Although I do find that last video funny...lol.

[Kamerat]

Right, because wanting to eat food and sleep in a bed is reactionary. :rolleyes:Nope.

But spreading lies about people in Cuba dont have food to eat or a bed to sleep in is.

[StrictlyRuddie]

I currently live in Miami and my mothers parents were immigrants from Cuba. They lived in camaguey and were very poor but had family over in the U.S. and left a couple years before the revolution by plane. When my grandmother was pregnant she took a plane with my grandfather back to Cuba to have my mother born there.

From the stories I've heard, my grandparents(specifically my grandmother) were very right wing. Being of spanish descent they were as you mentioned lighter skinned cubans and as you mentioned the racial differences being a major cause. I've heard many stories about pre revolutionary Bars, clubs, schools etc.. designated to specific races(white, black, or mulattos) and my grandparents complained about these places not being segregated when returning after the revolution. It is true and a lot of conservative and reactionary beliefs around here being spread by these exiles to there children.

So to summarize.. Not all exiles were Batistas henchmen or rich land owners(a lot were though) A lot of it has to do with conservative and traditionalist views(homophobia, racism, sexism, anti-socialism etc..) and the spreading of these ideas to there youth and children.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I know a Cuban ex-pat, someone who is actually a very good friend of mine. We worked together on the fishing boats in Alaska for years. He tried to leave Cuba once when he was 15 years old with his father in the mid-90s, but was caught and briefly imprisoned in Cuba for it. He tried again and was picked up by the Coast Guard and eventually admitted to the United States.

He isn't well off...in fact, he is about as proletarian as they come. He says that life was hard for him in Cuba, and I have no reason to believe that he's lying. He also hates Castro, but he doesn't fit any of the conveniently composed categories that you've created.

The point is that not everyone who disagrees with Castro or doesn't like the direction Cuba has headed is a dirty reactionary bastard. Many people as others have pointed out are just trying to get by.

[Blackscare]

I think the OP is stuck in the past, for one thing. No matter the origins, there is now a large, established Cuban population that is in south Florida. Are you going to demonize an entire population of people forever? The Cuban revolution was quite a long time ago now. The people who were young then (and may or may not have fled because they were dirt bags, granted) are now quite old.

Revolution and upheaval is often how ethnic minorities form in other nations. Does that mean that we have to look back to every conflict that ever created a refugee population, take a side in that conflict and then either support or demonize said group of people forever? This guy fled a fascist coupe, so he's a good guy, but that guy fled a communist revolution so he is probably evil. Right. :rolleyes: Because, you know, there is no such thing as a proletarian for one reason or another being suspicious of communism and being afraid of change. Revolutions aren't scary times to go through, and only bourgeoisie fat cats flee them, not politically ignorant people who are afraid of instability and having their crops taken or being kicked out of their homes.

Many people just saw that they were living on an island that was becoming increasingly unstable (military coups, then full on ARMED STRUGGLE in the mountains and in major cities). They thought that they would have a better and (more importantly, for understanding revolutions) stable life in the US, rather than deal with what may be a long and chaotic period of hardship and violence. People naturally want peace and prosperity, the only reason why working people would support communism is if they think it will bring them that. Working people aren't inherently communist at heart, so not all will be convinced its the right system to live in. It's really easy to deride those who flee armed revolutions while you sit in front of your computer somewhere in a developed, stable country, but it reveals you as a real dick. Try actually LIVING through something like that and not being at least a little scared for the future.

You have to accept that there are always going to be those in the working classes that will believe, at the time of a revolution, that they have a better chance of peace and safety in capitalism. That means they are misguided, not our enemies. We shouldn't hold grudges against everyone who flees communist revolution, a large number of these people were simply doing what, in their best judgment, was the best thing for themselves and their families. Does that make them evil? No! That makes them human. Not everyone is willing to put up with the chance of famine or poverty for someone Else's great ideals. People can't eat ideals, they need bread. Every communist should act with the Proletariat in mind, but not every Proletarian is a communist. Kind of like how every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Those amongst the proletariat that aren't convinced of the greatness of communism are still our brothers and sisters, and we should attempt to show them through our deeds why communism is better, not shun and hate them.


Also, to address all of those allegations you made, YES a good amount of those that fled WERE reactionaries. So? Many weren't. Many were just afraid. And even if ALL of them were, that was a past generation that fled a civil war over 50 years ago! There are many in the Miami area that are 2nd or 3rd gen at this point. They may harbor some anti-Fidel feelings but you have to expect that given the ways in which that community was formed. It's sort of like that joke about being in an elevator with people and stepping toward the door on the wrong floor. You're committed and don't want to embarrass yourself at that point by turning around. :lol: That doesn't make them a gang of vile pigs.

This is all just historically motivated hate, and I think it's idiotic. You don't like the fact that they fled a revolution that you support from over 50 years ago. Get over it. There is a reactionary element, but that doesn't justify what basically amounts to racism. You're targeting a specific ethnic group within the US for hatred when only some of them are guilty of something (being reactionary) that is present in every other group to some degree as well. What does it matter that you support their brothers in Cuba? By making some artificially black and white difference between "Cuba's Cubans" and "America's Cubans" you define those as different groups. You are targeting one particular group of people for the sin of being reactionary as if every one of them is, or no other group is. They aren't as "good" as the ones that stayed and therefore are different and worthy of hate. Therefore, your hatred of America's Cubans is racist.


Most working people in revolutions are not militants. Every person in the country has to ponder events and bet on the side that looks most likely to give them a good life. Oftentimes the only difference between those who stay and go is that one was willing to take the chance to leave and another would rather just stay on their land as long as possible. The farmer who stays may not have any real communist sympathies but is instead just too afraid to go. Those that stayed aren't always good communists, those that leave don't always masturbate to pictures of Hitler and kick puppies, either.

I bet you've never had to make a choice nearly as tough as deciding to flee your homeland for a country that you don't even share a language with. This is just as stupid as if I were to hate all Russians because back in the civil war the Bolsheviks crushed the Ukrainian Makhnovists. It's old and, from the standpoint of holding grudges, irrelevant. If you've got enough time to sit around and stew over how much you hate a group of refugees, you're clearly not spending enough time making communism a reality by actually convincing people (those refugees you hate so much, for instance) that communism is a system that they can believe will work and would want to live in. There are way more important things to be doing than demonizing the Cubans in Miam. I know a lot of Cubans in Florida, not one of them is rich or evil. I don't fucking judge people because of their family history for being in a particular country, or because of their possible disagreement with the way their homeland is being run. I'm not arrogant enough to hate someone for the political situation in THEIR homeland when I have no connection to it at all. You don't know what motivated every person to move, people's personal lives are way more complicated than your black and white politics.

[Blackscare]

Ever think that may cause a personal bias in the way you see the situation ?
It seems I must've hit a sore spot.

I apologize for not correctly estimating the emotional sensitivity of my audience.
I think it's funny that you're calling people biased or sensitive, because you seem to have a real personal hatred against all SF Cubans. You're all worked up and foaming at the keyboard over shit that went down in the 1950's and your "audience" is being too emotional? That is pure comedy. This whole thread is an out and out assault on all SF Cubans, whom you've judged to be the scum of the earth. You're hardly one to be calling others biased. You just come off as some rabid castroist zombie unable to see things in shades of gray.



As far as the new exiles (post 91), your arrogance is really sickening. I left that out of my first post, so here's my rant about them.

Castro can do no wrong and it's an idealic communist paradise over there, right? :rolleyes: You'd have to be an idiot to expect people to just stick around and suffer (something you've probably never done) in order to remain loyal to some abstract social theory that isn't helping them. When there is extreme hardship people move somewhere that is doing better, that is natural in human societies and it is just childish to carry a grudge over that.

Granted the Cubans never asked for 91 to happen and it wasn't really a failure on their part, but the fact remains that after that happened life started getting shitty (for a few years) in Cuba. People were living on a small fraction of the UN recommended minimum daily calorie intake, the average Cuban lost something like 20-30 pounds during that time. Have you ever lived in that kind of widespread hunger and shortage? Can you imagine how scary that would be to live through? Didn't think so.

So how can you make moral judgments about those that brought their families to the US to escape the food shortage? You are a coward, you attack people for choices they made during circumstances your ass has never come close to experiencing. Communist states don't always work, and if they do survive a long time they will inevitably have times of hardship that will cause people to leave, like every state does at some point. How can you expect communist ideas to be more important to people than actually being comfortable and well fed?

Also, the whole "I lived in miami so i know what I'm talking about" line carries about as much weight as if I said "I've lived around black people, and trust me, they're all evil". You're clearly biased and probably have been for a long time, so I doubt you ever payed attention to much about the SF Cubans that didn't already confirm what you thought. I say this because I know tons of them and never got the same impression. So you must have been fishing for what you wanted to see. And why does it sound like you were only ever around the rich Cubans? Maybe your problem is you hang around in bourgeoisie social circles.


For the record, I am a firm supporter of socialist Cuba, and I really admire what they've done to become energy independant after 91 (The power of community: how Cuba survived peak oil is a great documentary about that). However, I'm also a practical and compassionate person, and I would never expect people to suffer when they have a chance at a better life, just because that better life isn't in a communist state. People are what I care about, that is why I'm a communist. But if people truly had a better shot at happiness under capitalism (I don't believe thats the case in the long term though), then so be it. Try actually understanding the needs and desires of the working masses and basing your opinions on that rather than close mindedly worshiping at the alter of communism and expecting everyone to just fall in line.

[brigadista]

I think the OP is stuck in the past, for one thing. No matter the origins, there is now a large, established Cuban population that is in south Florida. Are you going to demonize an entire population of people forever? The Cuban revolution was quite a long time ago now. The people who were young then (and may or may not have fled because they were dirt bags, granted) are now quite old.

Revolution and upheaval is often how ethnic minorities form in other nations. Does that mean that we have to look back to every conflict that ever created a refugee population, take a side in that conflict and then either support or demonize said group of people forever? This guy fled a fascist coupe, so he's a good guy, but that guy fled a communist revolution so he is probably evil. Right. :rolleyes: Because, you know, there is no such thing as a proletarian for one reason or another being suspicious of communism and being afraid of change. Revolutions aren't scary times to go through, and only bourgeoisie fat cats flee them, not politically ignorant people who are afraid of instability and having their crops taken or being kicked out of their homes.

Many people just saw that they were living on an island that was becoming increasingly unstable (military coups, then full on ARMED STRUGGLE in the mountains and in major cities). They thought that they would have a better and (more importantly, for understanding revolutions) stable life in the US, rather than deal with what may be a long and chaotic period of hardship and violence. People naturally want peace and prosperity, the only reason why working people would support communism is if they think it will bring them that. Working people aren't inherently communist at heart, so not all will be convinced its the right system to live in. It's really easy to deride those who flee armed revolutions while you sit in front of your computer somewhere in a developed, stable country, but it reveals you as a real dick. Try actually LIVING through something like that and not being at least a little scared for the future.

You have to accept that there are always going to be those in the working classes that will believe, at the time of a revolution, that they have a better chance of peace and safety in capitalism. That means they are misguided, not our enemies. We shouldn't hold grudges against everyone who flees communist revolution, a large number of these people were simply doing what, in their best judgment, was the best thing for themselves and their families. Does that make them evil? No! That makes them human. Not everyone is willing to put up with the chance of famine or poverty for someone Else's great ideals. People can't eat ideals, they need bread. Every communist should act with the Proletariat in mind, but not every Proletarian is a communist. Kind of like how every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Those amongst the proletariat that aren't convinced of the greatness of communism are still our brothers and sisters, and we should attempt to show them through our deeds why communism is better, not shun and hate them.


Also, to address all of those allegations you made, YES a good amount of those that fled WERE reactionaries. So? Many weren't. Many were just afraid. And even if ALL of them were, that was a past generation that fled a civil war over 50 years ago! There are many in the Miami area that are 2nd or 3rd gen at this point. They may harbor some anti-Fidel feelings but you have to expect that given the ways in which that community was formed. It's sort of like that joke about being in an elevator with people and stepping toward the door on the wrong floor. You're committed and don't want to embarrass yourself at that point by turning around. :lol: That doesn't make them a gang of vile pigs.

This is all just historically motivated hate, and I think it's idiotic. You don't like the fact that they fled a revolution that you support from over 50 years ago. Get over it. There is a reactionary element, but that doesn't justify what basically amounts to racism. You're targeting a specific ethnic group within the US for hatred when only some of them are guilty of something (being reactionary) that is present in every other group to some degree as well. What does it matter that you support their brothers in Cuba? By making some artificially black and white difference between "Cuba's Cubans" and "America's Cubans" you define those as different groups. You are targeting one particular group of people for the sin of being reactionary as if every one of them is, or no other group is. They aren't as "good" as the ones that stayed and therefore are different and worthy of hate. Therefore, your hatred of America's Cubans is racist.


Most working people in revolutions are not militants. Every person in the country has to ponder events and bet on the side that looks most likely to give them a good life. Oftentimes the only difference between those who stay and go is that one was willing to take the chance to leave and another would rather just stay on their land as long as possible. The farmer who stays may not have any real communist sympathies but is instead just too afraid to go. Those that stayed aren't always good communists, those that leave don't always masturbate to pictures of Hitler and kick puppies, either.

I bet you've never had to make a choice nearly as tough as deciding to flee your homeland for a country that you don't even share a language with. This is just as stupid as if I were to hate all Russians because back in the civil war the Bolsheviks crushed the Ukrainian Makhnovists. It's old and, from the standpoint of holding grudges, irrelevant. If you've got enough time to sit around and stew over how much you hate a group of refugees, you're clearly not spending enough time making communism a reality by actually convincing people (those refugees you hate so much, for instance) that communism is a system that they can believe will work and would want to live in. There are way more important things to be doing than demonizing the Cubans in Miam. I know a lot of Cubans in Florida, not one of them is rich or evil. I don't fucking judge people because of their family history for being in a particular country, or because of their possible disagreement with the way their homeland is being run. I'm not arrogant enough to hate someone for the political situation in THEIR homeland when I have no connection to it at all. You don't know what motivated every person to move, people's personal lives are way more complicated than your black and white politics.

Look what happens to Cubans who try to do something...

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2392982551
Free the Cuban 5 facebook page

[brigadista]

http://www.freethefive.org/

this is a better link:)