North Korea, as it is

[punisa]

I was wondering, saw a bunch of tourist documentaries on internet from Pyongyang. Basically as you already know, you are only allowed to film what they let you, visit places that they let you and you're monitored 24/7 once in the country as a tourist.

Some say that all fancy stuff in Pyongyang is just a façade. Do you know any sources, especially video footage, of real life in North Korea?
Considering all the snoopy reports that exists, did anyone ever sneak past the surveillance of NK and got an insight into the real day to day life? Unobstructed by propaganda.
I'm saying local bars, shops, young people socialising, any simple stuff :)

There must be something... hopefully recent and hopefully not biased :(

[Socialist Scum]

Sorry, it is all biased.

Apart from these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM

You can watch the other 6 in the related boxes.

[BobKKKindle$]

If you're interested in getting a more honest and realistic picture of life in North Korea, I'd recommend 'Comrades and Strangers' by Michael Harrold. It's written by a man who spent several years working in North Korea as a proof-reader for the English translations of Kim Il Sung's works, and during his time there had had the opportunity to visit other parts of the country as well as Pyongyang, and he also developed a number of friendships with the locals, and other foreigners who were working in Pyongyang at the same time as him. It's a really good read, and not just because it's interesting from a political viewpoint.

[Rangi]

You want good news from the DPRK? I wouldn't hold my breath. If you really want to know what the place is like then I suggest you go there.

[Akim]

Sorry, it is all biased.

Apart from these:
(link to youtube)

You can watch the other 6 in the related boxes.

Thats a very interesting documentary/travel show! Biased or not NK is a shithole. I wonder why North Koreans have not rebelled against Kim Il Sun and his son whos now in power.
They should beat the shit out of that fatty nerd! :cursing:

[punisa]

thank you for all the sources ! I really lack knowledge about NK apart from the political structure and demonizing reports we can see on CNN :lol:
When you watch any show about NK on mainstream media it portrays it as a hell on earth, even worse then hell :confused:

[punisa]

Sorry, it is all biased.

Apart from these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM

You can watch the other 6 in the related boxes.

I'm half way trough, how come they didn't check his footage before leaving the country? Or perhaps the reporters managed to hide it :lol:
I don't think NKeans would like us to see some of those images


So is this movie actually an export of NK propaganda or?
Cause in one part we see the chatolic church and a bunch of people praying and saying how the constitution allows them to believe what they will.
Then again this is from Amnesty International report: "there were reports of severe repression of people involved in public and private religious activities, including imprisonment, torture and executions"
Who to trust? : /
:rolleyes:

[Pogue]

Even if we just see what the North Korean government wants us to see, and hear what the citizens themselves say, we see things are pretty bad.

[Pogue]

You know Tupac Amaru II will be the next tourist over there, he knows how wonderful and socialist North Korea is :D

What a joke.

[JimmyJazz]

Make two posts in a row about it http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc101/vtm20002000/unsure.gif

[Pogue]

Make two posts in a row about it http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc101/vtm20002000/unsure.gif


I already did silly.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Its a really nice place and I wish i lived there I like the strange personality cult I think its very communistic. But seriously theres a documentary on youtube done by the north koren goverment that shows "a normal day" which seems rather shitty to be honest.

[Davie zepeda]

let's all be honest we started to believe the bourgeoisie media about this goverment this documentary did shed light in my eye's i was over whelmed with shock. I mean ok there life is pretty boring but as you see they try with what they have to have fun. I forgot they had an embrago on them lol, I still am crictal of the regiem but it has soften me alittle.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM)

[punisa]

let's all be honest we started to believe the bourgeoisie media about this goverment this documentary did shed light in my eye's i was over whelmed with shock. I mean ok there life is pretty boring but as you see they try with what they have to have fun. I forgot they had an embrago on them lol, I still am crictal of the regiem but it has soften me alittle.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM)

I'd love not to believe what bourgeoisie sends us, but when NK is the case its just so hard :lol:
If life actually was as in the first posted documentary it wouldn't be bad at all. Maybe their lifestyle seems boring to us, but I believe they don't think that way.
The catastrophes and famines were largely induces by the US (and other capitalists), no doubt there.

[Davie zepeda]

Whos to know comrade many who gone to so called socialist country like actually stay and we don't know in less we go see are self's. But truly this documentarys was a shocker compared to all the negative stuff i look at about that country.

[R_P_A_S]

I saw the documentary "State of Mind" the other day. I loved it! You should check it out! It's mostly based in Pyongyang but there's also some parts outside of it.

[Davie zepeda]

could you send a url to that video?

[rednordman]

Here is a good box set:http://www.verymuchso.co.uk/default4.aspx?CF=store. It has a DVD package with State of mind, crossing the line, and the game of their lives. I would describe them as non-biast in the sence that it mentions the struggles that its people have to deal with, but also recognises their successes also. But its kind of non-partisan. Also the 'game of their lives' DVD is awesome, whether you love NK or hate it.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Thats a very interesting documentary/travel show! Biased or not NK is a shithole. I wonder why North Koreans have not rebelled against Kim Il Sun and his son whos now in power.
They should beat the shit out of that fatty nerd! :cursing:


Two words: cultural hegemony.

The NK's are not exposed to any other perceptions of their leader. They do not witness what is going on in other nations and the media only present a positive view of the regime. Reminds me of 1984.

Has anyone seen the youtube video which documents the death of Kim Il Sung? People are rolling around crying. It's sad really. The people are trapped and most are not even aware of the underprivileged position they are in.

[BobKKKindle$]

Has anyone seen the youtube video which documents the death of Kim Il Sung?The fact that North Koreans cried when they heard of Kim Il-Sung's death does not prove that they did so because they were incapable of thinking independently and are subject to only one source of political ideas. The death of a famous leader or figure often provokes an emotional reaction - consider the collective grief after the death of Diana in the UK as an example. This is especially true in the case of Kim Il-Sung, as a guerrilla leader who had a major role in driving out the Japanese occupation through his activities in northern China during WW2, and as a political leader who successfully organized the economic reconstruction of a country that had almost all of its industry and infrastructure destroyed by the most powerful military giant in the world - the United States - with the backing of many other powerful countries as part of a UN-sponsored coalition during the Korean War. In this context, and given that North Korea was facing isolation from the rest of the world when Kim Il-Sung died in 1994 following the collapse of its key diplomatic ally and trading partner in 1991, and given that leaders tend to occupy an important place in the Confucian tradition, it is entirely understandable that people would cry. Your comment is symptomatic of many explanations for the behavior of North Koreans and North Korea's economic performance, as you locate the source of all failures in the decisions of the government instead of acknowledging the other factors that have contributed towards North Korea's problems, such as the collapse of the USSR (as mentioned above), the country's natural topography, and the effects of natural disasters on agricultural production. In truth, many of North Korea's problems can be attributed to external factors, or internal factors beyond the control of the government, and this is also true of other historical famines, such as the deaths following the Great Leap Forward in the PRC. We should always remember that North Korea was economically superior to the south in terms of the level of economic development and standard economic indicators such as GDP/Capita until the mid-1970s, due to the advantages posed by the planned economy, and the nationalized property base, particularly during the Chollima movement, despite the fact that South Korea has received extensive economic aid from the United States for the duration of its existence.

I've already given a book recommendation, but another good source of information is 'North Korea' by Paul French.

[Qayin]

I hope leftists kills that fake commie coward

The bourgeoisie points the finger to NK when ever we bring up communism and socialism.

[al8]

Here is a good box set:http://www.verymuchso.co.uk/default4.aspx?CF=store. It has a DVD package with State of mind, crossing the line, and the game of their lives. I would describe them as non-biast in the sence that it mentions the struggles that its people have to deal with, but also recognises their successes also. But its kind of non-partisan. Also the 'game of their lives' DVD is awesome, whether you love NK or hate it.

State of Mind at youtube; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjj-swHSR8&feature=related

[Wanted Man]

Here is a good box set:http://www.verymuchso.co.uk/default4.aspx?CF=store. It has a DVD package with State of mind, crossing the line, and the game of their lives. I would describe them as non-biast in the sence that it mentions the struggles that its people have to deal with, but also recognises their successes also. But its kind of non-partisan. Also the 'game of their lives' DVD is awesome, whether you love NK or hate it.
Yeah, these are by far the best documentaries on the subject.

[JimmyJazz]

let's all be honest we started to believe the bourgeoisie media about this goverment this documentary did shed light in my eye's i was over whelmed with shock. I mean ok there life is pretty boring but as you see they try with what they have to have fun. I forgot they had an embrago on them lol, I still am crictal of the regiem but it has soften me alittle.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46KntXAqOM)

That was hilarious. The host kept repeating word-for-word the Western propaganda on North Korea even more incessantly than the North Koreans were throwing their propaganda at him, and he didn't even realize he was doing it.

"There you have it, folks. Communism can be fun. Of course it's not so fun if you're in the Gulags."

Communism is dreary. Gulags. It's like he had to practice to pack those neocon talking points on communism so tightly together. But he probably didn't, since that kind of shit just comes naturally to anyone raised and indoctrinated into the Western personality cult of The Enterprising Capitalist.

Edit: I don't "support" North Korea. Living in a closed country is shitty. But it disgusts me to see so-called leftists joining in with ardent neocon mouthpieces to poke fun at the quaint little closed country that is so closed to the West, when the reason it is so closed is because the West--and I mean the whole West: the United fucking Nations--fucking attacked it with everything they had and almost destroyed it. Hey guys, let's poke this dog in the eye with a stick 50 times, then let's point and laugh and what a cowering wuss he is because he avoids us even when we had no intention of hitting him just then.

Seriously, you can take whatever stance you want on DPRK based on a leftist analysis, but fuck you if you let the bourgeoisie make your anti-NK case for you.

[eisidisirock]

That made me hate North Korea even more. And btw look at 1:39.

[Akim]

That made me hat North Korea even more. And btw look at 1:39.

You mean hate?

[punisa]

Has anyone seen the youtube video which documents the death of Kim Il Sung? People are rolling around crying. It's sad really. The people are trapped and most are not even aware of the underprivileged position they are in.

I'd trust that we all agree that Yugoslavia was the most free of all socialist nations, considering that many people worked and travelled to Europe and US during the socialist regime.
Still when Marshall Josip Broz Tito died the whole nation cried. These were the 80's and we're talking about pro-western socialists here that were probably drinking more coca-cola and playing louder rock n roll then some western countries :lol:

So its not that the people are simply brainwashed, but as the other comrade stated - people were very found of their leader. Simply because its not your average political suit, in example of Tito we are talking about a partisan fighting in the woods with a rifle againsts the nazi Germany to liberate its country, being shot, wounded, but never gave up.
In such extreme cases as in occupied Yugoslavia, to know that only a handfull of brave men and women endured all the struggles, created an army out of a few "rebels", and finally were victorious (Yugoslavia was the only territory in the east that was not liberated by the Red Army) - people have deep respects for such deeds.

People never forget this stuff, and they shouldn't. Its absolutely normal to cry for such people.

[punisa]

That made me hate North Korea even more. And btw look at 1:39.

Look at what? ... which movie? On the other one 1:39 are mass games, why would that event make you hate NK even more? :confused:

[R_P_A_S]

I think it's important to acknowledge both sides of the coin when it comes to North Korea. I'm not all into the juche ideology to be honest with you. But I support and sympathize with working people that have struggle and rid them selves of outside exploitation i.e. imperialism. I don't think much if Kim Jong Il but I do like what his father did or tried to do for Korea, rid them of Japanese and American empires, but I question the road the place is taking.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Crossing the line is online as well.
If you type 'crossing the line' on google video there's 4 parts. I cant directly link to it, cause it's not off google video itself.

[S. Zetor]

I've already given a book recommendation, but another good source of information is 'North Korea' by Paul French.

There's some excerpts available in Google Books, and at least the table of contents gives me an impression of "liberal tabloid" style, with subtitles like "The Juche Nation: Beloved leaders, Brilliant thoughts, Power Cuts and Empty Shelves" or "The Worst of Times: Food, Famine and The Arduous March".

Also the books full title, North Korea, the Paranoid Peninsula has a "scandalistic" touch to it IMO.

Now, I'm not saying that what the book says is not true (I haven't read it.. yet), or that what these subtitles imply is false on a factual basis, but I must say that the impression I get from this is that the author is not very interested in giving a fair account of how things stand there. If Bobkindles would like to elaborate, I'd be thankful.

One other good book that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Martin Hart-Landberg's Korea. Division, Unification and U.S. Foreign Policy. It deals with South Korea too, and doesn't get into detailed description of North Korean society, but I found it useful for providing the historical background and the general outlines how the NK system has formed.

Some interesting quotes:

"North Korea's economic achievements were truly remarkable. Agricultural output grew by an average of 10 percent a year during the 1950s and 6.3 percent during the 1960s. By the end of the 1960s, the government was able to declare that the country had achieved food self-sufficiency. Industrial growth rates were even more noteworthy. Gross Industrial Product in 1956 was almost three times what it had been in 1953; in 1960 it was almost 3.5 times what it had been in 1956. [..] These achievements were so remarkable that even Western economists began to speak of the 'North Korean miracle'." (p. 147-148.)

"Even CIA estimates [..] showed that, 'as of early 1976, the North Korean economy was outproducing the South in per capita terms in almost every sector[.]" (ibid.)

My general assessment is that Juche style ideology of self-reliance (or, for that matter, putting up Chinese style SEZ's in the 90s) hasn't really been helpful since the demise of the USSR . On the contrary, bone-headed clinging to the past and top-down style of government (something that can't be said of Cuba, btw) have been more than harmful. (Plus obviously imperialist pressure and other crap, but that's not very surprising, so it's not as interesting as the "internal" dynamic.)

[Lynx]

Is North Korea dependent on China for its survival or are they self-sufficient?

[Ismail]

Is North Korea dependent on China for its survival or are they self-sufficient?They are pretty self-sufficient industrially, but agriculturally they have obvious problems since the northern portion of Korea is a poor place for food-growing. (Mountains, vulnerable to floods, etc.)

China's relationship with the DPRK is a nascent form of imperialism. They're basically waiting for Kim to die so a "market socialist" pro-Chinese type takes over. One thing I admire is that when the DPRK itself had a "market socialist" phase in the early 21st century (started by China, of course), they abandoned it shortly thereafter rather than continue. It shows that they haven't sold themselves out at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinuiju_Special_Administrative_Region

[Josef Balin]

I'm half way trough, how come they didn't check his footage before leaving the country? Or perhaps the reporters managed to hide it :lol:
I don't think NKeans would like us to see some of those images


So is this movie actually an export of NK propaganda or?
Cause in one part we see the chatolic church and a bunch of people praying and saying how the constitution allows them to believe what they will.
Then again this is from Amnesty International report: "there were reports of severe repression of people involved in public and private religious activities, including imprisonment, torture and executions"
Who to trust? : /
:rolleyes:
They don't view not letting you take pictures of anything not good as being big brotherish, if you take a picture that isn't good it's seen as you trying to "show the worst" of their country, the locals look at you weird if you try to take a bad picture.

But yeah, gulags of that sort would not surprise me in NK, sadly.

[zapatista]

As much as i don't want to believe the bourgeoisie media...NK does seem like a shithole dictatorship masquerading under the name of socialism.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I cringe at the very thought of North Korea. I hate that place with a passion.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

They are pretty self-sufficient industrially, but agriculturally they have obvious problems since the northern portion of Korea is a poor place for food-growing. (Mountains, vulnerable to floods, etc.)

China's relationship with the DPRK is a nascent form of imperialism. They're basically waiting for Kim to die so a "market socialist" pro-Chinese type takes over. One thing I admire is that when the DPRK itself had a "market socialist" phase in the early 21st century (started by China, of course), they abandoned it shortly thereafter rather than continue. It shows that they haven't sold themselves out at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinuiju_Special_Administrative_Region

They have other regions like that which haven't been abandoned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaesong_Industrial_Park

It's even being advertised on Korea-dpr.com:


The DPR of Korea (North Korea) will become in the next years the most important hub for trading in North-East Asia.

Lowest labour cost in Asia.

Highly qualified, loyal and motivated personnel. Education, housing and health service is provided free to all citizens. As opposed to other Asian countries, worker's will not abandon their positions for higher salaries once they are trained.

Lowest taxes scheme in Asia. Especially for high-tech factories. Typical tax exemption for the first two years.

No middle agents. All business made directly with the government, state-owned companies. No middle agents.

Stable. A government with solid security and very stable political system, without corruption.

Full diplomatic relations with most EU members and rest of countries.

New market. Many areas of business and exclusive distribution of products (sole-distribution).

Transparant legal work.

Legal procedures, intellectual rights, patents and warranties for investors settled.