The Government Keeps Us Uneducated

[dmcauliffe09]

I wanted to pose this as a general question to get a discussion going, but I am going to write a blog about it that is more in-depth. Does the (American) governent keep its lower-class population uneducated on purpose so that all nobody in the lower class will rise up against the government? My belief is that the government cannot have an educated population, because then it would not be able to exert control over said population. The government relies on an uneducated and misinformed public in order for it to manipulate the people.Thoughts?

[ZeroNowhere]

High School History. That is all.

[punisa]

More people are educated the harder it is to control them.
One question regarding the US educational system. What education must you pay tuition?
I presume there are public and private high-schools, but what is the case with colleges? Are there any colleges/university where you can go after high school without paying tuition?
Thanks

[jake williams]

Are there any colleges/university where you can go after high school without paying tuition?
Thanks
No. A couple people here and there get full scholarships (so the school or whoever pays for the tuition), but that's pretty rare.

[dmcauliffe09]

Yeah, the closest thing is a full scholarship, but those are hard to come by. Not only do you have to pay, you have to pay extravagantly, especially if you want to go to a "good" school. It's a shame that they put a price on education.

[Elect Marx]

Yes. I was on a panel discussing this topic. Not only do they fail to teach important life lessons, they essentially discourage active learning and especially critical thinking.

Here is the show: LUNk Communiqué #4 (http://www.lunkradio.org/programs/Communique_2008-12-02_Educational_System.mp3)

[ZeroNowhere]

Yes. I was on a panel discussing this topic. Not only do they fail to teach important life lessons, they essentially discourage active learning and especially critical thinking.

Here is the show: LUNk Communiqué #4 (http://www.lunkradio.org/programs/Communique_2008-12-02_Educational_System.mp3)
I'm actually already listening to that. It's pretty good so far.

[Elect Marx]

Thank you. I should say too, that it isn't just the government involved here. The entire class structure (industry obviously, religion, etc.) has a hand in controlling education and indoctrinating people.

[Angry Young Man]

Yup. Tell me, do you have any comically inept teachers?

My school wasn't so bad. Everyone was apathetic. A lack of interest in politics seemed organic to everyone else.

[punisa]

Yeah, the closest thing is a full scholarship, but those are hard to come by. Not only do you have to pay, you have to pay extravagantly, especially if you want to go to a "good" school. It's a shame that they put a price on education.

That's actually horrible, probably the most obvious fact that the government does not want to have educated people.
Only the wealthy are granted terms (have money) for higher educated and thus the cycle keeps staying the same: wealthy get educated --- wealthy preserve the capital :(

Here in Europe, at least in my country, the majority of colleges are public and thus free. Well there is a certain nominal tuition, but its just symbolic to cover books printed etc. You still do have to pay for your accommodation, but that's a small price to pay.

Ofcourse, you do have private colleges that are very expensive. There are even some private US colleges, notably the division of Rochester institute of technology (RIT).

Interestingly enough, despite our free-for-all educational system, we only have 3% of population with a college degree. I'm not sure as to why this number is so low :(

[Raúl Duke]

My school wasn't so bad. Everyone was apathetic. A lack of interest in politics seemed organic to everyone else. I noticed this when I went to a U.S. high school. When I was in Puerto Rico the apathy towards the government/politics surpassed general apathy and more towards derision and distrust in politicians and the government (the media played a role in this, we are told constantly how so-so politician of one party is corrupt, then another politician from the opposite party is also corrupt. We then draw a conclusion that both parties are corrupt, etc). There's no anarchist presence that I know of in Puerto Rico but sometimes you can see grafittis stating "don't vote for anyone, they don't deserve it."

[Kassad]

I don't think they keep us uneducated, as you say. Education is a pretty manipulative term, as a lot of the bourgeoisie are likely quick to call supporters of revolutionary socialism 'uneducated.' My teacher told me yesterday that people who reject capitalism "aren't thinking enough." I mean, if that doesn't send a message about the bias and agenda of many teachers, I can't say what does.

Recognize one simple fact, though. A lot of colleges, high schools and the like are funded by the private sector. American corporations donate huge amounts of money to schools, but you must realize the implications. If the schools want that money to keep coming in, they have to succumb to the will of the corporate elite. Corporations are going to be very hostile to the idea of hiring socialist teachers or teachers that reject consumerism or American imperialism. This corporate hegemony keeps a tight grip on schools and the world and this maintains their dominance, since they educate people in a way that benefits the consumer culture.

I don't think teachers are necessarily guided by men in dark suits to lie to their students, but I think the entire American educational system revolves around 'this will teach you to get a job and labor for the benefit of society.' I understand people need to develop skills that benefit them in the workplace, but students need to learn more than just basic skills. They should learn to be intellectuals and critical thinkers. They should learn to harness their decision making skills so that they can analyze all the options of potential decisions. They should be guided on a path of respecting others and using social skills in the future to benefit everyone possible, not just the individual himself.

But as long as capitalism exists, education will teach very few things. People will buy things when they are told, due to the corporate elite's grip on even basic necessities like food and education. Until the system is destroyed, this will not change.

[JimmyJazz]

The government, no. The social system, yes. If you privatized education it would hardly even change. It might even get a little worse: they might completely cut the arts, literature, etc., and leave only the "job training" elements required to make good workers (which is already the bulk of it).

The government follows civil society in most things, I find. For example, they don't treat their postal workers and public school teachers shittily because they're evil, they do it directly because of the example set by how workers are treated in the private sector. They're not very inventive.

[Nietzsche's Ghost]

Not uneducated, but definately under/mis-educated. The government exerts a huge amount of control of public schools in the U.S. At my high school, from day one, the teachers are prepping us for the state assesment tests. If we do well on the tests, the school gets funding, the teachers get bonuses(I think, but not sure), and the money the school gets supposedly goes to new books. So all year we learn exactly what the government wants us to learn, unless we are lucky enough to have a teacher that gets tired of it.

[Psy]

I don't think they keep us uneducated, as you say. Education is a pretty manipulative term, as a lot of the bourgeoisie are likely quick to call supporters of revolutionary socialism 'uneducated.' My teacher told me yesterday that people who reject capitalism "aren't thinking enough." I mean, if that doesn't send a message about the bias and agenda of many teachers, I can't say what does.


When they anti-capitalist are uneducated they mean anti-capitalists are not properly indoctrinated. The bourgeois educational systems primary goal is indoctrination, this is why people learning on their own is strongly discouraged in bourgeois educational institutions.

[Kassad]

When they anti-capitalist are uneducated they mean anti-capitalists are not properly indoctrinated. The bourgeois educational systems primary goal is indoctrination, this is why people learning on their own is strongly discouraged in bourgeois educational institutions.

Of course. It's the exact same strategy religious institutions use. If they can pump a dogma or an ideology into your head from birth, it's incredibly tiresome and difficult to reject that idea, since it is a notion you were raised to believe. As long as people are born into the capitalist system, the bourgeoisie in control will manipulate necessities for their personal gain, since the only way to obtain these necessities is to play the profit game, which consistently results in bankruptcy, manipulation and destruction.

[Psy]

Of course. It's the exact same strategy religious institutions use. If they can pump a dogma or an ideology into your head from birth, it's incredibly tiresome and difficult to reject that idea, since it is a notion you were raised to believe. As long as people are born into the capitalist system, the bourgeoisie in control will manipulate necessities for their personal gain, since the only way to obtain these necessities is to play the profit game, which consistently results in bankruptcy, manipulation and destruction.

It is not just that but they try to mold students into being passive observers of their education process, simply parroting what is thought to them by the authority figure. Students are not allowed to learn through trial and error, failure is discouraged thus students are discouraged from learning on their own.

[Bitter Ashes]

This reminds me of that documentary, Zeitegiest.
The method it suggested was less that schooling was bieng directly blocked and more that mass media and entertainment were bieng used to encourage people to care less. It's all very alluring. I'm sure everyone here was told when they were a kid by thier parents to "Turn off the TV/stop playing that video game/not go out tonight" and to "read a book/do your homework/etc". And didnt we argue? Didnt we grumble to ourselves as we did that homework about how much we'd rather be trying to beat that Boss in FFVII and most likely, ended up doing that anyway as soon as your parents' backs were turned. The Sony Playstation won over our education, even a little bit, at home it seems :blushing:
As for actual schooling; set curriculums are a concern. We MUST learn about religeon and even attend morning prayers. We're taught science that, if you ever go to college afterwards, you find wasnt actualy that accurate and you're even warned there that at uni it will change again. On top of that you've got the propaganda. You learn about the Communism briefly in History, although much of it is focussed on certain extremists' actions such as killing the Tsar and his family in thier homes, or how the world came so close to nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It does go a long way towards creating a suspicon of Communism. However, to pluck a victory from the jaws of defeat, I think it also taught me some important lessons on how easily things can go wrong if you rush and gave some prime examples of how not to do things.
Make what you will of all that :)

[kiki75]

Does the (American) governent keep its lower-class population uneducated on purpose so that all nobody in the lower class will rise up against the government?
Yes. If you study the American public education system over time, you will find that it has become more propaganda-like, there is less emphasis on logic, and there is a decline in the addition of new information over time (building upon previously learned information). Also, the topics chosen to educate the American populace are too influenced by political agenda.

And, the less you know, the less you know.

[Kassad]

It is not just that but they try to mold students into being passive observers of their education process, simply parroting what is thought to them by the authority figure. Students are not allowed to learn through trial and error, failure is discouraged thus students are discouraged from learning on their own.

I can't say I agree with all of that. It isn't so much 'failure' that is discouraged, but students are consistent ridiculed and criticized for questioning the information presented to them. Instead, they are told to conform and merely memorize information that can blindly be spouted out upon request. Instead of educating students to be critical and logical thinkers, they are told to blindly accept authority. Those who question are disgraced and those who comply, obey and cooperate are praised for their intellect.

[Psy]

I can't say I agree with all of that. It isn't so much 'failure' that is discouraged, but students are consistent ridiculed and criticized for questioning the information presented to them. Instead, they are told to conform and merely memorize information that can blindly be spouted out upon request. Instead of educating students to be critical and logical thinkers, they are told to blindly accept authority. Those who question are disgraced and those who comply, obey and cooperate are praised for their intellect.
Actually failure is discouraged, if you get something wrong it is not only marked but goes against your grade. The grade system encourages students to just memorize answers so they can get good grades.

[punisa]

I can't say I agree with all of that. It isn't so much 'failure' that is discouraged, but students are consistent ridiculed and criticized for questioning the information presented to them. Instead, they are told to conform and merely memorize information that can blindly be spouted out upon request. Instead of educating students to be critical and logical thinkers, they are told to blindly accept authority. Those who question are disgraced and those who comply, obey and cooperate are praised for their intellect.

Great point Kassad !
I was actually talking to a friend about it the other day, bringing up an example from college.
We had a class (forgot its name) about business and marketing etc, there was talk about becoming better then your business competition - selling better, advertising better, getting your employees to work harder for less by "motivating" them and so on.

I remember I posed a question to my professor then, where does this race stop?
I mean, if you constantly need to increase your productivity, your competition is doing the same thing, you both produce better and better, your workers suffer more and more. But where is the end here??
Does it end when one party just "cracks down" and ends up in asylum or something?

Haha, I remember that he wasn't able to give me any meaningful answer and even got slightly angry with me for questioning the capitalist ways :laugh:
That's just one example to back up your story Kassad, having finished economics and management I could probably compose hundreds of them :lol:

[Kassad]

Actually failure is discouraged, if you get something wrong it is not only marked but goes against your grade. The grade system encourages students to just memorize answers so they can get good grades.

Well, there's a negative stigma associated with failure in the United States. Failure is wrongly associated with being wrong, when in truth, it is something that should be celebrated, as it opens a window of opportunity to learn from someone's mistakes and correct them.

Regarldess, this doesn't mean that failure should be encouraged. I'm not an advocate of the current educational system, but I don't think it's going to make students intellectually sound by ignoring failure. Failure should be used as an opportunity for correction and advancement, but there's a fine line between working from it and accepting it. Failure should not be accepted, as it allows people to become complacent.

[Bitter Ashes]

So, trail and error is the way that should be encouraged? :)
I have learned the most important things in life through making mistakes, so I guess stigma associated with that process cant be good.

[Kassad]

So, trail and error is the way that should be encouraged? :)
I have learned the most important things in life through making mistakes, so I guess stigma associated with that process cant be good.

Not necessarily. I'm not saying we encourage students to fail so they can learn from their mistakes, but I am advocating the idea that we should use failure as an opportunity to mature and develop, as opposed to sticking a fat, red 'X' on the page and moving on. Failure is an opportunity to learn, sometimes even moreso than success.

[MMIKEYJ]

I wanted to pose this as a general question to get a discussion going, but I am going to write a blog about it that is more in-depth. Does the (American) governent keep its lower-class population uneducated on purpose so that all nobody in the lower class will rise up against the government? My belief is that the government cannot have an educated population, because then it would not be able to exert control over said population. The government relies on an uneducated and misinformed public in order for it to manipulate the people.Thoughts?
Yes, hence the gradual dumbing down of America as we've seen here.

And I think it happens in 2 ways.. One is purposeful chemical dumbing down, be it, fluoride, medicating children, over medicating adults, etc.

and the other is the typical laziness inherent in people.. Idiot box Television, XBOX video games, etc.. Peoples' gray matter has become darkened by stupidity and an ever-pervasive lowering of the bar for all.

[Psy]

Not necessarily. I'm not saying we encourage students to fail so they can learn from their mistakes, but I am advocating the idea that we should use failure as an opportunity to mature and develop, as opposed to sticking a fat, red 'X' on the page and moving on. Failure is an opportunity to learn, sometimes even moreso than success.

Trail and error is a good way to learn, you let the student figure out how to overcome the obstacle on their own while passively teaching them (let the students come to teacher for advice)