The EU as a supernation.

[Tatarin]

By now, many people will understand that the European Union is more and more moving in the direction of becoming one big federal union.

But to the point - should we support the EU, like it is now, because it is unifying all of Europe? Because it is erasing the nation state for the creation of the federal state? And perhaps in the process, eliminates nationalism?

Wouldn't this in the long run also unify the European working class, thus putting the concentration on defeating one federal state instead of each small state in the union?

There are some things to be abandoned with the new "constitution" though, such as the loss of worker's protection, but I'm more thinking in the long run. There doesn't exactly appear to be another parallel leftist union in place, as an alternative, nor does revolution in all member states seem plausible for, at least, the next decade.....

[punisa]

It would be a very hard and long process if nationalism was to be eliminated from member states.
But I agree that forming of a union should be examined as in what benefits does it bring to the working class and especially the socialist idea.

Many many times EU is portrayed as a big evil corporation, usually by conspirators. According to them it's just another step in creating global corporate market.

EU is very complex and tends to get hard to understand its missions.
What do you think about over-delay of accepting new members? Formally the EU wants to be sure that new members comply with all of its regulations and laws, but is it really so?
For example it did accept Bulgaria, although Bulgaria did not fulfil all of its pre-member duties.

I think EU is reluctant to expand further into the Balkans. By not doing so these countries will probably become someone else's satellites (US, Russia or even middle eastern). What do you think?

[Angry Young Man]

Not so much the EU as is now, considered the disparity between living costs and standards in the old Western countries and the new Eastern countries, but, I think it would be very good if the countries now with EU membership were a socialist bloc, we could first off fix a high standard of living throughout the bloc, and export socialism around the world.

[ComradeOm]

I think it would be very good if the countries now with EU membership were a socialist bloc, we could first off fix a high standard of living throughout the bloc, and export socialism around the world.Well why don't we just cut out the middleman and imagine what the world would be like if the UN was a 'socialist bloc'?

The EU is not just a collection of nations, it is an economic collaboration of some of the most advanced capitalist economies in the world. It is, in short, a capitalist creation designed to further the aims of the European bourgeoisie. To argue that it could be some vehicle for socialist Europe, a USSE if you will, is to ignore this fundamental aspect of EU institutions and surrender entirely to naive pan-Europeanism

[Angry Young Man]

And if it were to go socialist, it could advance the interests of the global proletariat. In the same way the US could if that became a socialist state. Seen as the US is the most resistant to socialism, the rest of the first world has to become the large socialist power.

[Tatarin]

Yes, we must not forget that the EU project as it is today is purely to help the EU bourgeoisie. I'm more asking about the point of supporting one strong union, thus later on placing the focus on only one EU government, rather than a revolution in each and every state in Europe.....

[Nils T.]

The EU is not moving towards a federal union...

[Tatarin]

What about the Lissabon Treaty and the eventual adoption of the euro for all member states?

[ComradeOm]

And if it were to go socialist, it could advance the interests of the global proletariat. In the same way the US could if that became a socialist stateAnd in the same way if the UN could go socialist. Or if every capitalist state in the world suddenly went socialist. Or the Coca Cola Corporation became socialist. You catch my drift? If the EU, an inherently capitalist structure, became socialist then it would no longer be the EU

Our goal should be to abolish the EU. Then you can go ahead and replace it with whatever socialist alternative you want


What about the Lissabon Treaty and the eventual adoption of the euro for all member states? Nils is entirely correct. People have been talking about an EU superstate, a USE, for almost a century now and all we have to show for it is creeping economic integration. The most obvious move towards a federal state - the EU Constitution - was decisively rejected by European voters. If I have anything to do with it then Lisbon will follow suit

[Nils T.]

As the european central bank is not directly affiliated to the existing european democratic institutions from which the superstate is expected to appear, it does not mean much. Some countries in middle east and asia are starting to replace their reserves in dollar with euros, that does not mean that they associate with a future european state. And some european countries are not close to adopt the euro.

The lisbon treaty is a compromise between the interests of the governements and capitalist classes from each country. It is used mainly to put out of democratic reach certain aspects of the organisation of the european markets and certain societal politics like the handling of the immigration. The european union is now and in the near future just a second chance for the european capitalism if the first were to fail. It would have stayed that way if the constitution had been adopted.
It is our own two states solution.

That being said, i'm not convinced that the eu is inherently capitalist. As unlikely as it is, a european popular front could happen. But having one more state in which we potentially could put a socialist government don't give us one more chance to do it.

[Some Red Guy]

The EU is indeed a tool of the bourgeoisie, and we should not support it as it is today. I do like the idea of a unified Europe; nationalism is just silly in the 21st century. But the bureaucrats in Brussels are not working for us, no point pretending anything different.
An EU super nation could happen in the right circumstances though, given a total economical breakdown where there was no other option. It would only make it easier to concentrate on the EU leaders, instead of lots of small governments.

[RaiseYourVoice]

The EU isn't and won't become a nation state. Its an imperialist project of nation states working together in areas. Much more comparable to NATO, WTO, IMF and the like than a state. Its a purely capitalist project and not some nation that we could or had to work in. That of course does not mean that its not a good thing when workers and revolutionaries from european countries coordinate their actions.