Youth Converting!

[Che_Guevara_]

i am in a private school in south africa and one of my friends is a steel communist. He is very good at arguing and loves communist concepts so he regularly argues with the majority of my grade which ,being the higher class is capitalist, is quite a task. However he has managed to convert 10-15 out of about 45 boys and many arent communists as such but agree change is necessary. This is brilliant news as many of my youth are converting to communism/socialism, if this turns out to be true then maybe the future could be Red and communist comrades! many also are enthusiastic for a revolution and have plans with me like we have the beginnings of a manifesto. Maybe communism isnt so far away:)

so comrades communicate communism to the community!

[Coggeh]

i am in a private school in south africa and one of my friends is a steel communist. He is very good at arguing and loves communist concepts so he regularly argues with the majority of my grade which ,being the higher class is capitalist, is quite a task. However he has managed to convert 10-15 out of about 45 boys and many arent communists as such but agree change is necessary. This is brilliant news as many of my youth are converting to communism/socialism, if this turns out to be true then maybe the future could be Red and communist comrades! many also are enthusiastic for a revolution and have plans with me like we have the beginnings of a manifesto. Maybe communism isnt so far away:)

so comrades communicate communism to the community!
Sounds good , by communism what do you mean though ? You sound young and back when i was young i had very distroted views on communism lol

[Che_Guevara_]

Sounds good , by communism what do you mean though ? You sound young and back when i was young i had very distroted views on communism lol

You and the other 15 boys take arms ,for the revolution is nigh :) lol .. *waffles fair* you rascal :):) lol im not saying 15 boys are going to take the world into a international revolution but its 40.5% of my grade. That isnt bad considering im in a private school where possible revolutionaires arent going to go (no offence).

by communism i mean ;
a classless state with no discrimination and equality for all. This is where our idea of communism may differ. Many south africans believe the version of communism that should be implemented into the country should have a sort of government. Sounds a contradiction but it isnt so simple, the natural instinct is to follow or to lead, to listen and to reply, power cannot be shared within the people without a sort oof leader like Stalin or Mao but without the strings attached like the great purge or like china now a kind of non-communism as china has a free-marketing system. So i would implement a President who would live like the common everyone else, a chancellor and a cabinet of ministers. They would have no power to dominate over the people and would be elected by those who have degree's. So as too have a vote that is untarnished by unintellectual types whose vote would be purely on bias and based not on a manifesto of ideas just on there outside appearance.
I realise some of these ideas arent typical communist ideas but otherwise it wont work in practice + its just my opinion and after all i have alot to learn. However the president position is not up for election like a dictatorship but like i said without the stalinism.

[Che_Guevara_]

by the way your :
*waffles hair* you rascal
comment is patronising, if i hadnt said i was still in school/college you would havee treated me with more respect...i dont know why age should affect your opinion on my comments/ideas

[Coggeh]

lol im not saying 15 boys are going to take the world into a international revolution but its 40.5% of my grade. That isnt bad considering im in a private school where possible revolutionaires arent going to go (no offence).

by communism i mean ;
a classless state with no discrimination and equality for all. This is where our idea of communism may differ. Many south africans believe the version of communism that should be implemented into the country should have a sort of government. Sounds a contradiction but it isnt so simple, the natural instinct is to follow or to lead, to listen and to reply, power cannot be shared within the people without a sort oof leader like Stalin or Mao but without the strings attached like the great purge or like china now a kind of non-communism as china has a free-marketing system. So i would implement a President who would live like the common everyone else, a chancellor and a cabinet of ministers. They would have no power to dominate over the people and would be elected by those who have degree's. So as too have a vote that is untarnished by unintellectual types whose vote would be purely on bias and based not on a manifesto of ideas just on there outside appearance.
I realise some of these ideas arent typical communist ideas but otherwise it wont work in practice + its just my opinion and after all i have alot to learn. However the president position is not up for election like a dictatorship but like i said without the stalinism.
I like the bit about without Stalin as my ideology is kind of based around that . But one question , what of the poor who never got a chance to go to college ? shouldn't they be allowed to vote ?

[Coggeh]

by the way your :
*waffles hair* you rascal
comment is patronising, if i hadnt said i was still in school/college you would havee treated me with more respect...i dont know why age should affect your opinion on my comments/ideas
I apologise comrade , I did not mean it to be patronising . Ill edit it . Sorry once again .

[Che_Guevara_]

no worries thank you

that is where equality comes in to it ....if i didnt let the poor who couldnt get an education vote then i wouldnt be giving them the whole nature of socialism/communism. I would like to implement education for all and those who drop out of school before a degree, its there problem. But obviously i cant implemnt education for all straight away so it would take time when funds from capitalism have built up then the revolution takes place and there should be enough money to improve education..if not then we would let everyone vote until education is available to everyone. if that makes sense?!
thank you for your question comrade

[Coggeh]

no worries thank you

that is where equality comes in to it ....if i didnt let the poor who couldnt get an education vote then i wouldnt be giving them the whole nature of socialism/communism. I would like to implement education for all and those who drop out of school before a degree, its there problem. But obviously i cant implemnt education for all straight away so it would take time when funds from capitalism have built up then the revolution takes place and there should be enough money to improve education..if not then we would let everyone vote until education is available to everyone. if that makes sense?!
thank you for your question comrade
I think the vote should be allowed for everyone regardless of past education. The working class are the revolutionary class , they are the ones who are dismayed by capitalism . As college is costly , and degrees could involve things like marketing , business etc do you think those who want to get into business and marketing are going to support socialism ?

I like the idea about having everyone educated before they vote , but its very impractical and in this system is grossly unfair . The poor who have to work 2 or 3 jobs in order to have a decent income have no time for college . They are the ones who will most likely support socialism .

[Che_Guevara_]

yes i agree its unfair but the state will provide college and university for free.
How? with the money gained from the revolution (bourgeioise) so that should sort out the costs for the poor.

and i agree they will think hmm i have a degree in marketing and business but ofcourse the curriculum would change to accomodate this..for example business would be taught to encourage how to incorporate business into the socialist system.

[Pogue]

So people without degrees can't decide things for themselves? :confused:

[Che_Guevara_]

yes i suppose your right but maybe should be judged whether they have completed schooling

no i have never said they cant think for themselves but illiterates couldnt even read a manifesto yet alone think deeply about a political decision.
a good example is that the ANC where i live in South Africa always wins elections becuase they are voted in by the majority illiterate black population that thinks hmm they defeated apartheid so ill vote for them even though the party is tearing apart from the inside out with lots of ministers and members defacting to COPE (congress of the people)
so maybe maybe not

[Pogue]

yes i suppose your right but maybe should be judged whether they have completed schooling

no i have never said they cant think for themselves but illiterates couldnt even read a manifesto yet alone think deeply about a political decision.
a good example is that the ANC where i live in South Africa always wins elections becuase they are voted in by the majority illiterate black population that thinks hmm they defeated apartheid so ill vote for them even though the party is tearing apart from the inside out with lots of ministers and members defacting to COPE (congress of the people)
so maybe maybe not

So you think whether or not people should be able to vote depends on their intelligence?

[Raúl Duke]

a classless state with no discrimination and equality for all. This is where our idea of communism may differ. Many south africans believe the version of communism that should be implemented into the country should have a sort of government. Sounds a contradiction but it isnt so simple, the natural instinct is to follow or to lead, to listen and to reply, power cannot be shared within the people without a sort oof leader like Stalin or Mao but without the strings attached like the great purge or like china now a kind of non-communism as china has a free-marketing system. So i would implement a President who would live like the common everyone else, a chancellor and a cabinet of ministers. They would have no power to dominate over the people and would be elected by those who have degree's. So as too have a vote that is untarnished by unintellectual types whose vote would be purely on bias and based not on a manifesto of ideas just on there outside appearance.
I realise some of these ideas arent typical communist ideas but otherwise it wont work in practice + its just my opinion and after all i have alot to learn. However the president position is not up for election like a dictatorship but like i said without the stalinism.Unless a class-less state-less society (with no "dictatorship of a president elected by educated people") is your end-goal, then by the look of this it doesn't seem like you are a communist but some sort of socialist...

[Pogue]

Yeh its not communism at all.

[Che_Guevara_]

yes i suppose it isnt communism, im a socialist then because whether you agree or not i believe people will only be able to lead together after everyone has what they need and i suppose thats after socialism

[Che_Guevara_]

So you think whether or not people should be able to vote depends on their intelligence?
yes. but not intelligence just there will to complete school. its not hard to go through school. if its supplied for you then you have to take it, your an idiot not to.

[ZeroNowhere]

They would have no power to dominate over the people and would be elected by those who have degree's.
Oh, go and shoot yourself. I swear, this is perhaps the first time the description 'Ivory Tower socialist' could actually mean anything other than a stupid and overused insult. :)


Unless a class-less state-less society (with no "dictatorship of a president elected by educated people") is your end-goal, then by the look of this it doesn't seem like you are a communist but some sort of socialist...
...Eh?


So you think whether or not people should be able to vote depends on their intelligence?
Intelligence? Hell, he mentioned degrees. That has nothing to do with it. And anyways, measuring 'intelligence' is impossible.


yes i suppose your right but maybe should be judged whether they have completed schooling
...:cursing:


no i have never said they cant think for themselves but illiterates couldnt even read a manifesto yet alone think deeply about a political decision.
Besides the point. They exist. They are fellow human beings. They are affected as much as literates by laws.
And anyways, fuck 'political decisions'.


a good example is that the ANC where i live in South Africa always wins elections becuase they are voted in by the majority illiterate black population that thinks hmm they defeated apartheid so ill vote for them even though the party is tearing apart from the inside out with lots of ministers and members defacting to COPE (congress of the people)
Um... I didn't know that the majority of people here in Singapore were illiterate. Really, there's no basis for establishing that as a causational relationship.


yes i agree its unfair but the state will provide college and university for free.
How? with the money gained from the revolution (bourgeioise) so that should sort out the costs for the poor
What if I don't want to waste my time in your college, eh? No thanks. Also, this sounds more like Keynesian or state capitalism. Also, how exactly are you going to get the money to fund this over and over from the bourgeoisie after a 'revolution'? Anyways, that's assuming that your universities are better than the others. How are you to manage to compete with foreign universities too? After all, surely otherwise the poor are still, y'know, getting an inferior university.


and i agree they will think hmm i have a degree in marketing and business but ofcourse the curriculum would change to accomodate this..for example business would be taught to encourage how to incorporate business into the socialist system.
Which won't help, because you don't have a socialist system. Anyways, incorporating business to... What?
And anyways, how about, rather than brainwashing the youth one way or another, we... Don't brainwash them?


I would like to implement education for all and those who drop out of school before a degree, its there problem.
Um, just saying, but education for all... That's kinda easy. Just as long as they're human, you don't have to worry about them.
As for schooling, if you were the Great Leader, I would put poison your tea.

[Che_Guevara_]

Oh, go and shoot yourself. I swear, this is perhaps the first time the description 'Ivory Tower socialist' could actually mean anything other than a stupid and overused insult. :)


...Eh?


Intelligence? Hell, he mentioned degrees. That has nothing to do with it. And anyways, measuring 'intelligence' is impossible.


...:cursing:


Besides the point. They exist. They are fellow human beings. They are affected as much as literates by laws.
And anyways, fuck 'political decisions'.


Um... I didn't know that the majority of people here in Singapore were illiterate. Really, there's no basis for establishing that as a causational relationship.


What if I don't want to waste my time in your college, eh? No thanks. Also, this sounds more like Keynesian or state capitalism. Also, how exactly are you going to get the money to fund this over and over from the bourgeoisie after a 'revolution'? Anyways, that's assuming that your universities are better than the others. How are you to manage to compete with foreign universities too? After all, surely otherwise the poor are still, y'know, getting an inferior university.


Which won't help, because you don't have a socialist system. Anyways, incorporating business to... What?
And anyways, how about, rather than brainwashing the youth one way or another, we... Don't brainwash them?


Um, just saying, but education for all... That's kinda easy. Just as long as they're human, you don't have to worry about them.
As for schooling, if you were the Great Leader, I would put poison your tea.

i pose these statements to find out more about communism. if i knew all of this then why would i be here talking to people like you?
this is my opinion OK so if you are going to comment do it in a way which is correct. like i never fucking said singapore did i? i said South Africa! and he the majority is either illiterate or badly educated.
also maybe you didnt notice i CORRECTED myself about the degree thing ok. jesus get off my back will you, all you've done is criticise every post i have done

[ZeroNowhere]

i pose these statements to find out more about communism. if i knew all of this then why would i be here talking to people like you?
this is my opinion OK so if you are going to comment do it in a way which is correct. like i never fucking said singapore did i? i said South Africa! and he the majority is either illiterate or badly educated.
Perhaps, but the majority of Singaporeans are literate, and still vote for the conservative PAP every time.


also maybe you didnt notice i CORRECTED myself about the degree thing ok. jesus get off my back will you, all you've done is criticise every post i have done
"But, if constructing the future and settling everything for all times are not our affair, it is all the more clear what we have to accomplish at present: I am referring to ruthless criticism of all that exists, ruthless both in the sense of not being afraid of the results it arrives at and in the sense of being just as little afraid of conflict with the powers that be."
Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

[Revolutionary Youth]

Perhaps, but the majority of Singaporeans are literate, and still vote for the conservative PAP every time.
I did not know that they can even vote?

"But, if constructing the future and settling everything for all times are not our affair, it is all the more clear what we have to accomplish at present: I am referring to ruthless criticism of all that exists, ruthless both in the sense of not being afraid of the results it arrives at and in the sense of being just as little afraid of conflict with the powers that be."
Sorry, couldn't help it. :D
Oh you!:D

[Che_Guevara_]

come on you cant even be half decent to a fellow communist/socialist how are you going to change the capitalist ideal if you cant even hold a proper communist discussion without patronising, non-constructive criticising and general negaitve vibes. ?

[Revolutionary Youth]

come on you cant even be half decent to a fellow communist/socialist how are you going to change the capitalist ideal if you cant even hold a proper communist discussion without patronising, non-constructive criticising and general negaitve vibes. ?
I am not going to change the capitalist ideal, that's a complete waste of time. Change it into what?
I'd rather spend my time researching to strenghthen the ideology of Communism to overthrow the cappie's idealogy.

[Che_Guevara_]

I am not going to change the capitalist ideal, that's a complete waste of time. Change it into what?
I'd rather spend my time researching to strenghthen the ideology of Communism to overthrow the cappie's idealogy.
i wasnt talking to you.
the cappie's ideology is easier to weaken than communism is to strengthen.

[Revolutionary Youth]

i wasnt talking to you.
the cappie's ideology is easier to weaken than communism is to strengthen.
You said change, not weaken.
And does it have to be me talking to you in order to critcize you?

[Che_Guevara_]

i said to him 'you', you reply with 'i' not 'we' thats replying as if i were talking to you.

and im not infallible like everyone else but it seems if i say something with one syllable/ word wrong i have a verbal assault.

ok im very sorry for saying change not weaken :closedeyes:

[Mike Rotchtickles]

you go for it man. However, I just think that generally young South Africans do have a small leaning towards socialistic ideals. I believe it may be the naivity of youth. I hope you grow up and keep these very same convitions cause you may contribute a lot to SA. The only problem is that I beleive that socialism or communism requires much personal sacrifice that young people cannot handle. I imagine if you were not in a private school you might have a totally different point of view. Those kids who school in the townships are mostly thinking about getting themselves out of the poverty they experience. kids are being bombarded by this materiliastic American culture and thats all they are about.