British Diplomat Arrested for...Speaking

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Allegations that a senior British diplomat launched into an anti-Semitic rant in a London gym while watching TV footage from Gaza will not upset the "treadmill of diplomacy", the Israeli Ambassador to London said today.
In a curiously tongue-in-cheek response to a case that has provoked concern within the Jewish community in Britain, Ron Prosor added that the tirade did not reflect "the health and fitness of our relations".


The diplomat, 47-year-old Rowan Laxton, allegedly shouted "f***ing Israelis, f***ing Jews" while watching television reports of the Israeli attack on Gaza last month.


He is also alleged to have said that Israeli soldiers should be "wiped off the face of the Earth" during the rant at the London Business School gym near Regents Park on January 27. The tirade reportedly continued even after other gym users asked him to stop.



After a complaint from a member of the public, Mr Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred - which can carry a seven-year prison term - and bailed to reappear at a central London police station at the end of March.


Seven Years?!?!?!?! Seven fucking Years?!?!?!?!

For hurting someones feelings? Are you fucking kidding?


Mark Gardner, deputy director of the Community Security Trust which monitors anti-Semitism, said: "There were an unprecedented number of anti-Semitic incidents during the Gaza conflict.

"This alleged case is particularly shocking, given the position held by the civil servant in question. We must not allow an overseas conflict to cause racism here in Britain and especially not among civil servants.


"The Jewish community will be rightly appalled to hear of these allegations against such a senior figure."


Blah blah blah go to hell. Perhaps they should deem support of Israel to be hate speech and throw your ass in jail, eh? Makes sense to me, what with all the innocents being slaughtered for fucking election results.


Goddamn is this really the answer? The state doesn't want hate speech, so the state will throw everyone in jail who speaks in un-PC terms....Though I doubt they would do anything if you made anti-muslim comments after a bombing.



They aren't jews, after all. And one last word to Mr Gardner, if you don't want Jews to look bad because of the terrorist state of Israel, then disavow it! As long as Israel runs around calling itself the state for jews while bombing civilians, then it only makes sense that people are going to associate jews with those bloodlusting freaks.



Goddamn this pisses me off. Political Correctness at its worst: Fascism.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5693687.ece

[benhur]

It's a misleading title. He wasn't merely 'speaking.' He was hurling abuses at a certain ethnic group. That's racist, and it's quite unfair to relate everything to Israel, and justify racism on that basis.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

He wasn't merely 'speaking.' He was hurling abuses at a certain ethnic group.

In other words, he was hurling words at an ethnic group.

Not stones. Not sticks. Not bullets. But words.

When the state begins rounding people up for hurling words about they don't like, there's a problem.


That's racist, and it's quite unfair to relate everything to Israel, and justify racism on that basis.

My point being that if one shows support of Israel, you are supportive of a racist regime. Therefore words in support of Israel are hate speech by very definition.

[Demogorgon]

He won't get seven years. Any more than a rap on the knuckles and it will be off to the European COurt of human rights anyway.

[RGacky3]

It's a misleading title. He wasn't merely 'speaking.' He was hurling abuses at a certain ethnic group. That's racist, and it's quite unfair to relate everything to Israel, and justify racism on that basis.

So what? That does'nt warrent any prison time, since when is insulting someone (be it one person, a group or a race.) warrent state punishment? Thats rediculous, feedom of speach.


Political Correctness at its worst: Fascism.

I agree, its rediclous, people should have the legal right to be rude, or assholes, or racist, its none of the States buisiness to punish people for their "character".

[JimmyJazz]

Europe's anti-anti-Semitic speech laws have got to go. They aren't working.

Holocaust denial is a more serious issue, but even that can't be dealt with effectively in this way. An iron fist approach simply doesn't work.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I agree, though I've never been to Europe and it seems from here anti-Semitism seems to be a bit of a recurring problem.

I don't have issue with holocaust denials, other than the issue of dealing with a disgusting dumbass. The only problems I have is if someone was in a position of power and was trying to reeducate the masses to that effect. For instance, if a teacher decides to teach the kids some of his version of history or, much worse, a nation or school determines that the event will be blotted out. In that case I think charges may be warranted.

[Comrade B]

People should not mention "Jewish" as the title of the scum murdering people in Israel. We hate them because they are scum that kill other human beings out of a belief that they are racially superior. We do not say "Fucking Germans" for the holocaust, we do not say "Fucking Bolivians" for the murder of Ernesto Guevara. We are all humans, some humans just behave better than others.

Fuck Israel. May their leaders be sent to the wall. May their military be disbanded and all that insist on their racial superiority expelled from the region, however those that are tolerant of other ethnic groups should be treated exactly as they have wanted others to be treated. We are communists. We believe in human equality. Fuck those that think themselves superior to someone due to race or religion.

This man should be reprimanded for his inappropriate behavior, however it seems like a rage-induced outburst. People say things they don't mean, they deserve a second chance.

[jake williams]

Europe's anti-anti-Semitic speech laws have got to go. They aren't working.

Holocaust denial is a more serious issue, but even that can't be dealt with effectively in this way. An iron fist approach simply doesn't work.
More to the point, when whacko conspiracy theorists get the idea that the government is conspiring against them and trying to prevent dissemination of their theories, it makes them even worse.


re: op

The comments are racist and offensive, but there's a big part of me that thinks it's totally understandable even if it's wrong. I don't cry much, but I bawled my eyes out listening to a young man from Khan Younis I think, talk about how the Israeli soldiers shot his brother, whom they knew personally and knew he wasn't a terrorist, and how his father had to watch his son bleed to death in his arms because the Israelis wouldn't let the ambulance through, or even let them walk to the hospital a few minutes away. I know this isn't a Jewish issue, but when the self-proclaimed Jewish state with a bloodly lot of Jewish support does things like this, I can sympathasize with someone who totally lost their shit.

I'm making the big assumption that he isn't just an anti-semite who found an excuse. Maybe he's just nuts.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

More to the point, when whacko conspiracy theorists get the idea that the government is conspiring against them and trying to prevent dissemination of their theories, it makes them even worse.


re: op

What the hell are you refering to?

The state actually arrested this man, so to say it's a whacko conspiracy theory is absurd.

They. Arrested. Him. As in the state is enforcing good behavior on its subjects.

Or should we assume freedom of speech does not mean anything to you?

[jake williams]

What the hell are you refering to?

The state actually arrested this man, so to say it's a whacko conspiracy theory is absurd.

They. Arrested. Him. As in the state is enforcing good behavior on its subjects.

Or should we assume freedom of speech does not mean anything to you?
No, sorry, I think you totally missed my point. JJ was talking about the general phenomenon of anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. What I was getting at is that a lot of people who are anti-semitic, or Holocaust deniers, or both, have a lot of crazy ideas about Jews secretly running the world and such. When they get arrested for exposing the truth, which is what they think they're doing, it just reinforces the idea that there's actually a conspiracy. But I don't think this man is one of those, though I could easily be wrong.

I also don't think you read my whole post.

[Bud Struggle]

No, sorry, I think you totally missed my point. JJ was talking about the general phenomenon of anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. What I was getting at is that a lot of people who are anti-semitic, or Holocaust deniers, or both, have a lot of crazy ideas about Jews secretly running the world and such. When they get arrested for exposing the truth, which is what they think they're doing, it just reinforces the idea that there's actually a conspiracy. But I don't think this man is one of those, though I could easily be wrong.



That's a good point. The state arrested the man and in the convoluted theories of the Jew haters the Jews control the state--so in effect an organization controled by the Jews arrested the man--which gives more fuel to the Jew haters.

When you stop free speech you start more trouble than if you just leave the guy alone to spout out his nonsense.

Anyway, the man should be able to say any whacko thing he wants short of yelling fire in a couded theater.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

No, sorry, I think you totally missed my point. JJ was talking about the general phenomenon of anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. What I was getting at is that a lot of people who are anti-semitic, or Holocaust deniers, or both, have a lot of crazy ideas about Jews secretly running the world and such. When they get arrested for exposing the truth, which is what they think they're doing, it just reinforces the idea that there's actually a conspiracy. But I don't think this man is one of those, though I could easily be wrong.

I also don't think you read my whole post.

I did but I didn't really pay attention you're right.

I personally think there is no conspiracy, I only care that this mans liberty is being infringed on. Not that it's anything really, as Demomorgan pointed out, other than the principle of the matter.

[Vahanian]

the diplomat should be taken out of his position for making those remarks

but a seven year jail sentence is a little harsh

[Killfacer]

He isn't even going to get a custodial sentance for it. He will get a slapped wrist and that will be it, guarenteed.

[Robert]

inciting religious hatred - which can carry a seven-year prison term

Seven years is such an odd maximum. Organizing a race riot at a soccer stadium that ends up killing 20 people might deserve a prison sentence.

[Demogorgon]

Seven years is such an odd maximum. Organizing a race riot at a soccer stadium that ends up killing 20 people might deserve a prison sentence.
You have to remember the hideous complexity of sentencing rules in England and Wales. Suffice to say, his offence will not carry a sentence of anything like that length, I would be astounded if he even went to jail.

To try to explain how the system works, Judges are supposed to sentence based upon precedent. That is they look at what sentences the crime typically attracts, balance aggravating and mitigating circumstances and the circumstances of the offender and make a judgement based on that. They also have sentencing guidelines issued by the Government and the decisions of Higher Courts to rely on. The law can specify maximum and minimum sentences, but those can potentially be widely apart as the offence will apply to a wide variety of different actions, with the sentence depending on severity.

[Jazzratt]

I would be surprised (maybe a little irked, but I won't be as angry as if it were a worthwhile human being) if he gets chucked in prison. However he should lose his job, after all diplomats are expected to be a bit more...diplomatic than this.

[synthesis]

I think to really support free speech, you have to let people yell fire in a crowded theater. Speaking is either the right of self-expression or an action, like any other, which can have negative consequences and for which people should be made to assume responsibility. The "crowded theater" analogy is too vague and broadly applicable.