Splitting Hairs...

[Holden Caulfield]

In regards to fascism and anti-fascism do you support a view that due to the the manipulative, dangerous, rascist, reactionary and division spreading rhetoric of fascists they should be deprived of Freedom of Speech, or Freedom to Organise?

[Sasha]

irrelevant poll, if you (and rightly so) effectifly obstruct their 'freedom' to organise, you'll make it imposible to publish/spread propaganda, to have meetings, marches and concerts, etc etc witch will mean that if you do a good yob in the end you'll take away their freedom of speech (outside the confides of their homes).
and you know what, i dont care....

[Comrade Anarchist]

Both for if they cant speak in public they will speak in private and they cant meet in public they will meet in private.

[Glorious Union]

If you remove their freedom of speach they will just plot in secret. Better to let the openly progtest and then nab them all at once. But of course, that wouldnt be very fair for them now would it?

[StalinFanboy]

Under a democracy, they have their rights to freedom of speech and such. But all that means is we gotta meet 'em with bats.

[Melbourne Lefty]

The best way to remove their freedom to organise is the way it has been done by antifa and other anti-racist activists.

Even simply informing a pub owner that they are harbouring fascist meetings removes slightly their freedom to organise.

All actions, but especially mass actions should be used to stop them.

Individual bat smashing when the fash are restraining themselves to the ballot box is probably not the best strategy, but mass action is always a good idea, even if it is harder to organise.

Look at it this way, if we dont disrupt them they will have the breathing space to disrupt us [as can be seen in parts of Italy]. But please THINK about it. Getting yourself put in the capitalist states jails and giving the fash a propaganda club is NOT a good idea.

[Holden Caulfield]

But please THINK about it. Getting yourself put in the capitalist states jails and giving the fash a propaganda club is NOT a good idea.

yep but I dont think any of the serious posters here say you should go round twatting every nazi you see. A) jail is bad, and B) getting your arse kicked or house attacked still hurts no matter how noble your cause was

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I believe to my heart that the only way to fight a bad idea is not to suppress it, but to proclaim a good idea. I believe that the only case where this may not be true would be in the case of individual hate crimes. I don't know if I am making as much sense because I am kind of sleepy at the moment. So take these words in the context they're in.

[Melbourne Lefty]

I believe to my heart that the only way to fight a bad idea is not to suppress it, but to proclaim a good idea.


True.

The main problem I see with groups like UAF is that they tell people not to vote for somebody without giving them an alternative.

Its been said before but its important enough to be said again.

[Holden Caulfield]

True.
false, to allow a view that is constantly ingrained into us by the bourgeois media to be freely proclaimed to the working class creates dangerous conditions for the left and ethnic minorites. it also divides and weakens us.

did the KPD's "after Hitler; us" slogan work? (no is the answer)


The main problem I see with groups like UAF is that they tell people not to vote for somebody without giving them an alternative.
exactly, i think its shite as well. You must offer a positive for every negative you put out there, telling to workers to vote Labour instead of BNP is an insult to my class and the strain it has been put under by the neo-liberal policies of the Blairites.

[RASHskins]

Yea removing there freedom to organize is the way too go. Going where they go and offering real solutions to people will get us supporters. Taking away their free speech does nothing, and in the end gets them more supporters as they will use the "free speech violation" as a way to look victimized.

[Melbourne Lefty]

did the KPD's "after Hitler; us" slogan work? (no is the answer)


Did the KPD and the SPD provide better alternatives?

As I think you have pointed out the BNP is not marching on westminster but is rather doing a rather good job of dividing the working class according to race.

The way to fight THAT is a better idea spoken louder.

And putting a few obstacles in the way of the BNP when they try to organise might help too....:lol:

but without the former the latter is useless.

[Anarchyandpeace]

I believe to my heart that the only way to fight a bad idea is not to suppress it, but to proclaim a good idea. I believe that the only case where this may not be true would be in the case of individual hate crimes. I don't know if I am making as much sense because I am kind of sleepy at the moment. So take these words in the context they're in.

Makes sense to me. If you give people a better alternative, chances are they will take it. Suppression is always counter productive.

[Holden Caulfield]

Makes sense to me. If you give people a better alternative, chances are they will take it. Suppression is always counter productive.

What is based on, what is the argument behind this? Or is it you slavishly accepting the moralist arguments of histories great opressors.

[Melbourne Lefty]

Suppression is always counter productive.


unpopular supression by governments is always counter productive.

Popular supression by the public on its own can be VERY effective, want an example? try Lynchings in the old south that kept blacks terrified for 100 years.

[Anarchyandpeace]

unpopular supression by governments is always counter productive.

Popular supression by the public on its own can be VERY effective, want an example? try Lynchings in the old south that kept blacks terrified for 100 years.

Thats a fair point.