The Atheism in the CCCP.

[Brother No. 1]

Comrades as we know mostly all Socialist Republics in the cold war were Atheist. Now I ask you was the CCCP a sucessful Atheist Socialist Republic. Also this is just to talk about the Atheism of the CCCP and not to rant badly about the CCCP.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

No they sucked at anti theism

[Brother No. 1]

Well they didnt want to force atheism on the People. But yes mostly all of the population was Orthodox Christain.

[Brother No. 1]

It Was good of the CCCP to tear that Chruch Down it was home of the Tzars and showed the pasts of the Tzars.

[ZeroNowhere]

It Was good of the CCCP to tear that Chruch Down it was home of the Tzars and showed the pasts of the Tzars.
No. It's only good when Varg does it.
So, what exactly are we supposed to discuss here?

[Brother No. 1]

Its good we both do it. But I do belive that atheism can work in All 15 Former Soviet states just takes time and effort.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Yes, PS, those are basic concepts of Socialism countries. You can not call yourself Commies until you free your mind from the slimey pillar of God.

[Brother No. 1]

Tell that to the communist Christains.

[Revolutionary Youth]

You support them?:confused:

[Brother No. 1]

no. they are just hard to talk of getting out of reilgion.

[Revolutionary Youth]

I'm not going to bash them away anyway. They all come from the very basic idea like us: love for everyone.
Having going to church with my sister for a long time, I can see that Christians are just like us: love spreaders. Though it would be better if they did't have a god to influent on their logical thinking.:)

[Brother No. 1]

Yeah but they go as they go. Atheism in the CCCP was encouraged but not forced apon the people. But Atheism is better for the CCCP.

[OneNamedNameLess]

I would be very careful about claiming that atheism was not forced upon the people. Religious people in the USSR were not exactly excepted by the state. Of course, I do believe western propoganda has exaggerated the persecution of the religious population there.

I would not say that it was predominantly atheist as religion was still practiced on a large scale by muslims, christians, jews and so on.

It's ironic that Stalin attended a school to train as a priest :D

[Brother No. 1]

Eh strange things happen to most unlikely people.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Apparently he was into Marxism while at the school and even got active as a student priest though. I think it's fair to say that his heart wasn't in it :lol:

[NecroCommie]

I really dont understand the religious bashing of the SU. The union really was quite open minded when talking about religion. Sure they were atheist and supported no church, but religious people weren't really slaughtered either.

Then there comes some assholes who shout: "but they killed priests!" Sure they did, but not because they were priests. It was because they were white.

[Revolutionary Youth]

It was because they were white.
White?:confused:

[Brother No. 1]

Well People seem to just hate the CCCP. It brings a tear to my eye.

[NecroCommie]

White?:confused:

As in white versus red (see russian civil war)

[Brother No. 1]

White as in those who did not support the communists the ones who were against them.

[danyboy27]

Well People seem to just hate the CCCP. It brings a tear to my eye.

well, you gotta accept both bad and good things in the CCCP, and unfortunatly the way religion was handled was too much authoritarian.

Stalin allowed freedom of religion when russia was on the brink of defeat during ww2, a verry opportunistic decision, krutchev then reinserted ban on religious icon and religion in general.

[Brother No. 1]

Stalin seemed to be better on reilgion then Krutchev.

[Revolutionary Youth]

As in white versus red (see russian civil war)
Oh, right. I thought you were talking about skin color. Sorry.:D
Yes, I know about that too. I'm learning about the October Revolution in school anyway.:)

[Brother No. 1]

the CCCP's atheism seems a ok verison.

[danyboy27]

Stalin seemed to be better on reilgion then Krutchev.


stalin banned the church Then allowed them for military purpose, if it wasnt eccause of the nazi it would still be prohibited.

[NecroCommie]

Oh, right. I thought you were talking about skin color. Sorry.:D
Yes, I know about that too. I'm learning about the October Revolution in school anyway.:)

Yeah I noticed that too. Immigrants and therefore colored people are rather new phenomena to this part of the world. It somehow passed my mind that the word "white" carries different loads in different parts of the world. My bad...

[Brother No. 1]

Well Atheism in the CCCP seems the be good and bad and itertwined with the Great pariotic War.

[Dharma]

The government should never have anything to do with the public's views, no matter how unintelligent. Polish, the Soviet Union had more flaws then strong points, you shouldn't blindly advocate them because they had a hammer and sickle on their flag, they were an oppressing nation for the most part.

[danyboy27]

The government should never have anything to do with the public's views, no matter how unintelligent. Polish, the Soviet Union had more flaws then strong points, you shouldn't blindly advocate them because they had a hammer and sickle on their flag, they were an oppressing nation for the most part.

i agree with you on that man, and i really think that why they failed, more than anything else.

Personally,. i am a huuge fan of the soviet union, i love the way they did some of their stuff, particulary the hardware in general, rugged but functionnal.

unfortunatly, it end there, and i am able to reconize the terrible, odd and horribles thing that they did, or did wrong.

more than anything else, the lack of freedom back there was just awful.

[Brother No. 1]

It has good and bad. I see the bad things it has done but Still I am a fan of the CCCP.

[Bud Struggle]

There was some anti-religious propaganda in the SU, but the biggest problem the religious people had is that the government closed the churches and fired or imprisoned the priests. Religion moved underground. It seem to have work in the SU, but next door in Poland (where I have relatives) it made for a SERIOUS dislike and disregard of the government. Unlike in the SU, the government was hated in Poland (in the SU people were for the most part indifferent to the government.) The religious underground (underground is probably a wrong word--it was out there quite a bit) in Poland was a strong backer of Solidarity and was one of the main reason's in Poland's Communist government's falling.

[NecroCommie]

more than anything else, the lack of freedom back there was just awful.

Do you feel yourself "free" in a capitalist society? When did you last affect on a decision greater than what to have for lunch? Voting does not count, for... well surely you must realize that every vote is NOT important. The result would have been the same without you. And when do you ever get to decide anything on your job? Deciding on which way to sit on your chair while programming does not count.

And can you just leave your city for a holiday when you like and come back to the job weeks later? I cant, for I would lose my job. Or what if you are poor for a reason not of your own? You would run out of money, and out of freedom. How many people really get to rise on social classes with hard work alone? 1, or maybe even two percent of the population? Majority of the poor people are condemned to poverty because of bad luck on having to be born to a poor family. Thats the freedom of capitalism for you isnt it?

Or a freedom to work at a job you like? There is none. Your job is entirely predecided by the laws of demand and production. If the companies have no need for another market director, you will not be market director. Now someone comes and says "start your own company!" ...and what?! Magically make money out of thin air? Majority do not have the chanse to put up any kind of company, let alone one that would survive the invisible laws of "free"market.

No one is "free" as westerners mean the word. Direct democracy on municipal councils and regional soviets are the most influentical ways for the "Joes of the street" to have a say on things.

[Brother No. 1]

Yeah the Communist goverment of Poland failed for the People were very reilgouis and didnt want to give up in god so easily.

[Bud Struggle]

Yeah the Communist goverment of Poland failed for the People were very reilgouis and didnt want to give up in god so easily.

Also the Polish have a long standing hatred of all thing Russian so Communism being "imposed" by the Soviets was nothing they liked either. A homegrown Communism would have worked better.

[Brother No. 1]

Well in Poland the CCCP and National Socialist germany jumped them so really a homegrown Communism was never made.

[grok]

The thing about the CCCP is like all things in life: this phenomenon had its good, its bad and its ugly sides. And was always a moving target, at that. And of course the imperialists go out of their way to propagandize about all the bad stuff; but the stalinists made that job a lot easier, huh?
:blushing:

However, the point which most people overlook re the stalinist states is that they generally started from peasant societies -- not so good a start for socialism, eh? And so we ended up with more a dictatorship of the bureaucracy than any Dictatorship of the Proletariat...

This time we do better, right..??
:thumbup1:

[Brother No. 1]

Yes we look from out mistakes and try it again but make it better this time.

[Bud Struggle]

However, the point which most people overlook re the stalinist states is that they generally started from peasant societies -- not so good a start for socialism, eh? And so we ended up with more a dictatorship of the bureaucracy than any Dictatorship of the Proletariat...

This time we do better, right..??
:thumbup1:

One of the things about Communist Revolutions is that they ALWAYS happen peasent societies. They never happen--as Marx predicted they would--in industrial countries.

Even the most fervant Marxist on this board don't seriously think a Revolution is ever going to start in America or Europe--all their hopes are pinned on third world backward countries.

I'm not saying that a bad thing, it's just something that has to be taken into consideration.

[Brother No. 1]

Take China Revoution for example Stalin told Mao to do the Revolution in Cities in turned out badly but he used Peasants worked out Great. Bacisly it seems useing the Backbone of the Society in very populas countries grants you victroy.

[NecroCommie]

The reason for revolutions not being likely in modern industrial countries is exploitation. Enriched by the experience of several failed, and few succesful revolutions, the western powers were convinced that somekind of social rights had to be quaranteed for their local populace. This is not a good thing however, for the wellbeing of us westerners is ripped from the spine of the third world workers. Imperialists exploit their supposedly independent third world countries, in order to quarantee safety in their local country.

Imperialist exploitation is the sole reason for our wellbeing, and the suffering of the third world countries. That is why our citizens become lazy and stupid, and why third world has a growing discontent towards capitalism.

[Brother No. 1]

Excatly. The citizens of America have become a bit lazy in activities and the show of support in them has really never been shown.

[Rousedruminations]

YES i don't think atheism or being agnostic was forced upon the people, but it was encouraged, or maybe, it was the thought that the radical religious views could be taken as counter-revolutionary and therefore as inspiration for a threat against the state..........which can happen........ as did in Iran by coming out of EXILE the spiritual revolutionary Ayatollah Ruhollah Kohmenini was quiet useful in subverting the Supported U.S dictator the ' Shah' !

................ Anyway..................

ITS simple MY Communist Comrades YOU should in vibe the notion of atheism and agnosticism envelope It !,

AND yet for those Religious/Christian faithful Communist.... if the ideals of communism and Marx are strongly adhered to and .. there is no aberration then of course hint you have my WAVERING.. support HOWEVER i find it inconceivable to mix the two together.....its like mixing OIL with WATER

A revolutionary struggle involves killing and a class struggle, if you were to call yourself a christian and yet advocate violence it makes u a spitting image of a hypocrite.. and so the only way to stay TRUE is to be an ATHEIST

So as a revolutionary in government being and Atheist is crucial, yet for the masses, i think what ever sticks best, and if they uphold the ideals of Marx, Engels and Lenin then so be it and yet if they still want to practice religion i don't see why oppression of such practice would be needed ? .......support is needed not dissidence

I am an atheist and agnostic and so i think that most communists should hold this view, lenin did ........;)

[danyboy27]

YES i don't think atheism or being agnostic was forced upon the people, but it was encouraged, or maybe, it was the thought that the radical religious views could be taken as counter-revolutionary and therefore as inspiration for a threat against the state..........which can happen........ as did in Iran by coming out of EXILE the spiritual revolutionary Ayatollah Ruhollah Kohmenini was quiet useful in subverting the Supported U.S dictator the ' Shah' !

................ Anyway..................

ITS simple MY Communist Comrades YOU should in vibe the notion of atheism and agnosticism envelope It !,

AND yet for those Religious/Christian faithful Communist.... if the ideals of communism and Marx are strongly adhered to and .. there is no aberration then of course hint you have my WAVERING.. support HOWEVER i find it inconceivable to mix the two together.....its like mixing OIL with WATER

A revolutionary struggle involves killing and a class struggle, if you were to call yourself a christian and yet advocate violence it makes u a spitting image of a hypocrite.. and so the only way to stay TRUE is to be an ATHEIST

So as a revolutionary in government being and Atheist is crucial, yet for the masses, i think what ever sticks best, and if they uphold the ideals of Marx, Engels and Lenin then so be it and yet if they still want to practice religion i don't see why oppression of such practice would be needed ? .......support is needed not dissidence

I am an atheist and agnostic and so i think that most communists should hold this view, lenin did ........;)
i wont be something or do something beccause lenin did it.

[Rousedruminations]

This is my view. Conventionality and Conformity to what is to be true .. for anything............ its consistency........ u cannot say one thing and then do the complete opposite later on, that constitutes hypocrisy ....

So Atheism for a true revolutionaries and Communist.....

For support purposes and advocates of socialist ideals, the overall majority that is the masses, should be allowed to believe in the religious views that they hold to heart .. so dissidence does not occur, therefore i think a sense of indifference and apathy should taken to the public or masses when it comes to tolerance of religion, yet any opposition to the ideals of Marx, Engels and Lenin... that is communism should be crushed !

[danyboy27]

This is my view. Conventionality and Conformity to what is to be true .. for anything............ its consistency........ u cannot say one thing and then do the complete opposite later on, that constitutes hypocrisy ....

So Atheism for a true revolutionaries and Communist.....

For support purposes and advocates of socialist ideals the masses can believe in .. so dissidence does not occur, i think a sense of indifference and apathy should taken to the public or masses when it comes to tolerance of religion, yet any opposition to the ideals of Marx, Engels and Lenin... that is communism should be crushed !

humans are not robots, live with it.

[Rousedruminations]

lol exactly which is why i said the state, should treat the masses with a sense of indifference or apathy when it comes to tolerance of religion....

yet if they were to oppose the ideals of communism, marx then of course there must be intolerable and inflexible dealing with them by brute force.....

[Revolutionary Youth]

yet if they were to oppose the ideals of communism, marx then of course there must be intolerable and inflexible dealing with them by brute force.....
A Stalinist! Get him!!!
Violence won't resolve anything. The ideology of Communism is not to create discrimination among people.God squads, they've already held a grudge against us, and now you want to deepen it?

[Rousedruminations]

what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence :confused::confused::blink:

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

And to incriminate me of being Stalinist ! or even Maoist we had them hardcore extremist for a reason ! .....

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....

[danyboy27]

what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence :confused::confused::blink:

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

And to incriminate me of being Stalinist ! or even Maoist we had them hardcore extremist for a reason ! .....

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....

go on man! get yourself a gun and do some stuff!
but dont come here tell us what to do. k?

[StalinFanboy]

what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence :confused::confused::blink:

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

And to incriminate me of being Stalinist ! or even Maoist we had them hardcore extremist for a reason ! .....

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....

Is anyone else having trouble understanding what he's saying?

[Comrade Anarchist]

They forced atheism upon thier people. Stalin destroyed the russian orthodox church for political reasons. IF he or Lenin had just eased it in there and into education and promoted it but instead they pushed it upon them for mainly political reasons

[Rousedruminations]

TWO QUOTES THAT COMES FROM LENIN AND (MAO) and obviously MARX.....

( If you oppose this and consider yourself a revolutionary or a communist, then i suggest u should think twice)

A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another. Mao

There is one, and only one, kind of real internationalism, and that is working whole-heartedly for the development of the revolutionary movement and the revolutionary struggle in one's own country, and supporting (by propaganda, sympathy, and material aid) this struggle, this, and only this, line, in every country without exception.


Lenin what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....


It is sooo obvious and clear to me that you need violence and killing in a revolutionary struggle. Secondly it would be encouraged by me, that being atheist and not believing in god is a good thing ! but HENCE not forced upon !

The first quote suggests that violence is needed, and the 2nd more through propoganda as lenin said justifies their need to promote the ideologies of marx and communism....

yes probably through Stalin it was forced upon, but as i said before i am indifferent to what the masses think ! its up to them.... and i probably wouldn't force it upon them, but for those who are revolutionary then it should be taken upon yourself that a belief in a god is absolutely not necessary !

[StalinFanboy]

TWO QUOTES THAT COMES FROM LENIN AND (MAO) and obviously MARX.....

( If you oppose this and consider yourself a revolutionary or a communist, then i suggest u should think twice)

A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another. Mao

There is one, and only one, kind of real internationalism, and that is working whole-heartedly for the development of the revolutionary movement and the revolutionary struggle in one's own country, and supporting (by propaganda, sympathy, and material aid) this struggle, this, and only this, line, in every country without exception.


Lenin what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....


It is sooo obvious and clear to me that you need violence and killing in a revolutionary struggle. Secondly it would be encouraged by me, that being atheist and not believing in god is a good thing ! but HENCE not forced upon !

The first quote suggests that violence is needed, and the 2nd more through propoganda as lenin said justifies their need to promote the ideologies of marx and communism....

yes probably through Stalin it was forced upon, but as i said before i am indifferent to what the masses think ! its up to them.... and i probably wouldn't force it upon them, but for those who are revolutionary then it should be taken upon yourself that a belief in a god is absolutely not necessary !
You're incredibly boring and dogmatic.

[Rousedruminations]

incredibly boring and dogmatic ?

but did u mention if i was right or wrong !

i think i am right .. let me repeat that whole thing again comrade !!


TWO QUOTES THAT COMES FROM LENIN AND (MAO) and obviously MARX.....

( If you oppose this and consider yourself a revolutionary or a communist, then i suggest u should think twice)

A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another. Mao

There is one, and only one, kind of real internationalism, and that is working whole-heartedly for the development of the revolutionary movement and the revolutionary struggle in one's own country, and supporting (by propaganda, sympathy, and material aid) this struggle, this, and only this, line, in every country without exception.


Lenin what do u mean violence won't resolve anything ... whats wrong with you ?

The russian revolution ... the October revolution ! what did that constitute violence

and what did it achieve ?
...... exactly......

... and to link that with Atheism in the CCCP, it is needed with all comrades of communism and revolutionaries for you cannot advocate violence in a revolution and then turn around and say... yay !!! i am a christian ' thou shall not KILL' ?....


It is sooo obvious and clear to me that you need violence and killing in a revolutionary struggle. Secondly it would be encouraged by me, that being atheist and not believing in god is a good thing ! but HENCE not forced upon !

The first quote suggests that violence is needed, and the 2nd more through propoganda as lenin said justifies their need to promote the ideologies of marx and communism....

yes probably through Stalin it was forced upon, but as i said before i am indifferent to what the masses think ! its up to them.... and i probably wouldn't force it upon them, but for those who are revolutionary then it should be taken upon yourself that a belief in a god is absolutely not necessary !

[Revolutionary Youth]

Who cares if those quotes are right?
You follow them mindlessly, and that's your flaw.

[Rousedruminations]

Those are quotes and you have left it as it is without any proper thought or comprehension about the founders of them quotes. Who actually gave prominence to the word communism and its ideology, its rightful standing in this world. It was Lenin for the most part and Mao who gave also acclaim to the ideology for Marxism.... ( Some of course may think that his absolute conventional and dogmatic stance on the views of marxism and leninsm were overly belligerent, yet i say it was necessary)



And further more you claim yourself to be a revolutionary youth yet you disparage and denounce the very quote that would have inspired another member in this forum and countless others in the world. The very act of doing this is a shame on you ! .. you should not discourage the mindless following of this quote .. in fact it this should be educated to the masses and taught with utmost adherence ... for the most part you are a hypocrite...

And yes i still believe in those two quotes, and if you don't believe in them you should give some respect, adulation and admiration for the impetus of socialist and communist outcomes after the death of lenin the great... and of course Mao !

Further more, i still hold my view on atheism and how it should be encouraged by other comrades to adopt this view, however, this should not be at all cost forced upon !

Anyway i recommend that you retract your comments graciously and with humility... its a suggestion... and yet if you still hold that it is a flaw in me to 'mindlessly ' believe in those two quotes then so be it

However i do stress that questioning the validity of those quotes is healthy in such a forum for constructive and positive adjustment purposes only ! ..... i am only reacting in defense for the veneration that Lenin and the others should be given ! you should NOT just throw him away in like he is worth nothing ! .. if it wasn't for him you would not be here speaking or discussing the prospects of subverting the capitalist authorities in this world !

[Revolutionary Youth]

I don't deny anti-theism, I deny the two quotes of yours on its characteristic of violence. Violence is, by all means, the final solution to the problem, when other peaceful solutions can not be attempted.
BTW, believe what you want, I'm not going to force anything upon you.

[Rousedruminations]

Unfortunately i disagree with you there. If you a communist or a revolutionary they go inter-changeably then violence is needed, insurrection and complete destruction and the removal of the bourgeoisie is needed. Violence cannot be a second option and we must not as revolutionaries have to think twice about this !

This is my view ! i know you don't accept, yet many comrades out there would agree with me, you.. as a revolutionary youth... seem far from it, condemning violence and say that it is the last option available to us is a disgrace and is insolent, violence should be the first option in such a struggle !

[RGacky3]

Violence is, by all means, the final solution to the problem, when other peaceful solutions can not be attempted.


If Violence is the solution to a problem, and the problem is'nt being attacked, then chances are you have to re-evaluate the problem, maybe its a problem on your side.

[Brother No. 1]

Violence is a last resort. Really do you want death now of all times.

[danyboy27]

Unfortunately i disagree with you there. If you a communist or a revolutionary they go inter-changeably then violence is needed, insurrection and complete destruction and the removal of the bourgeoisie is needed. Violence cannot be a second option and we must not as revolutionaries have to think twice about this !

This is my view ! i know you don't accept, yet many comrades out there would agree with me, you.. as a revolutionary youth... seem far from it, condemning violence and say that it is the last option available to us is a disgrace and is insolent, violence should be the first option in such a struggle !

i am sure hitler said something similar
godwins law ftw

[Brother No. 1]

So your saying. Go with the revloution and make more violence in the world. Really there is enough thanks to the Capitalist we are tring to prove to the world that Communism is the better system that will keep them safe and happy.