Communist leaders are anti-communist

[Comrade Anarchist]

Communism has had many great leaders and icons; Che, Lenin, Fidel, Mao, Trotsky. But arent leaders and icons wrong because isnt the object of communism to destroy idols and prevent people from being above people because we are all equal. So the October Revolution was nothing more than a socialist revolution because it had a leader who controled the power. Isnt Cuba nothing more than state capitalist and not communist. Yes these men and women did great things and its okay to quote them and read their works and such but idolizing and having them as leaders is anti-communist to me. What about you?

[LeninBalls]

Dictatorship of the Proleteriat much?

[robbo203]

Communism has had many great leaders and icons; Che, Lenin, Fidel, Mao, Trotsky. But arent leaders and icons wrong because isnt the object of communism to destroy idols and prevent people from being above people because we are all equal. So the October Revolution was nothing more than a socialist revolution because it had a leader who controled the power. Isnt Cuba nothing more than state capitalist and not communist. Yes these men and women did great things and its okay to quote them and read their works and such but idolizing and having them as leaders is anti-communist to me. What about you?

There is a saying I came across somewhere "only sheep need leaders - to fleece them!" . At the end of the day we can quote Marx or whoever until we are blue in the face but we are the ones - the working class - who are going to have to make the revolution. Leaders or vanguardists cannot make it on our behalf. We need to be able to stand on our own two feet in more ways than one. There is an unfortunate tendeny for some on the left to rely unduly on the thoughts and writings of "leaders" as a sort of crutch. Quoting holy scripture form this or that text is all very well and I am not saying there is not a place for it but we need to "think for ourselves for a change" ( to quote an old SPGB slogan)

There is an excellent short book by the Menshevik Plekhanov called the "Role of the Individual in History" which is a socialist classic and a powerful antidote to the "Great Man Theory of history" (Carlyle)

[Comrade Anarchist]

Dictatorship of the Proleteriat much?
The dictatorship of the proletariat is where the proletariat as a whole runs everything. there are no leaders just members

[Leo]

Iconization of individuals, cults of personality are indeed completely anti-socialist things, on the other hand it is important to critically analyze the iconized individuals and judge them by their politics. Lenin for example said "All our lives we fought against exalting the individual, against the elevation of the single person, and long ago we were over and done with the business of a hero, and here it comes up again: the glorification of one personality. This is not good at all" about the cult of personality developing around himself despite all his faults while Mao was talking about "good" and "bad" personality cults.

[BIG BROTHER]

Communism has had many great leaders and icons; Che, Lenin, Fidel, Mao, Trotsky. But arent leaders and icons wrong because isnt the object of communism to destroy idols and prevent people from being above people because we are all equal. So the October Revolution was nothing more than a socialist revolution because it had a leader who controled the power. Isnt Cuba nothing more than state capitalist and not communist. Yes these men and women did great things and its okay to quote them and read their works and such but idolizing and having them as leaders is anti-communist to me. What about you?

well...I really find the "state capitalist" theory flawed, but besides that yea its not good to idolize individuals. Yet I find it that perhaps people do that as a way to replace worship on gods and stuff like that....could be....

[Tzonteyotl]

well...I really find the "state capitalist" theory flawed, but besides that yea its not good to idolize individuals. Yet I find it that perhaps people do that as a way to replace worship on gods and stuff like that....could be....

But that just means they have a new "god."

It's obviously important to study and to learn the background of socialist thought and theory. But in doing so, it's also important to detach (insofar as idolization's concerned) it from the individual. For example, I don't read Marx and call myself a Marxist because I idolize Marx, but rather because I agree with and draw from his writings. That it's called Marxism is just coincidence because he happened to be the one who formulated it as such and it's named for him.

I used to wear shirts with all the revolutionary folks on them before and still on occasion sport a Zapata or Sup Marcos shirt, but now try to distance myself from that kind of cult-like stuff. So yeah, draw lessons from them, but don't worship them, haha.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yes of course, but I still think its possible to admire someone, recognizing their flaws and humanity at the same time.

For example, I hata Zapata t-shirt because I admire him and he inspires me, yet I don't think of him as someone perfect without any errors or flaws.

The way I see it, it also seems to me rather dificult to have any sort of movement that its not represented in one way or another by a sign, person, etc.

And all this I say, thinking about what Richard Dawkins theorizes about how maybe as an offshot of something else we're genetically inclined to worship something.

[Herman]

It is idiotic to believe that there are no leaders in a movement. There are those whose voice sounds better, whose words ring truer, whose presence helps elevate and fortify the beliefs and morale of the other members. It is a person we admire, someone whom we look up to.

The point, however, is to hold those leaders accountable and to see them with a critical eye.

No matter how workerist and down-to-earth your view of communism might be, there is always that person, worker or no, who takes the position of a leader, even if he or she does not hold authentic political power.