Does this hurt free speech?

[Comrade Anarchist]

I was reading Sartre and he said that a way to protect from fascism in a free democratic society is to not allow people to become fascist or have fascist ideas and to prevent fascists from rising in power. I thought about this and it seems that isnt that kind of fascist to say not to think in a certain way.
So is it fascist or anti fascist.

[StalinFanboy]

Seems anti-fascist to me, since it's targeting fascism. Fascism isn't just taking away peoples' rights. It's a complex ideology, and to say that something or someone is fascist because of some stand they take against something, is nonsense and destroys language and philosophy.

[butterfly]

How would one go about preventing 'thought crime' anyhow?

[Holden Caulfield]

...:mellow:
We have had many discussions on this subject, I'll dig up the threads when i get back from lectures.

It is a useful anti-fascist technique, and it isn't 'fascist' as fascism is an ideology not a substitute word for 'bad'

[Holden Caulfield]

I know nobody likes to read through old threads and follow links but I strongly suggest you sift through these:

No Platform 1 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/no-platformi-t84099/index.html?t=84099&highlight=platform)

No Platform 2 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/no-platform-debate-t93560/index.html?t=93560&highlight=platform)

This one covers many contentious issues around anti-fascism in some detail, it covers No Platformism first:

No Platform 3 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/philosophy-anti-fascism-t91215/index.html?t=91215&highlight=philosophy)

[Dr Mindbender]

You can't 'stop' people becoming fascists anymore than you can stop them becoming islamic radicals.

Only education can stop this, by that i mean the sort of education that bourgeois society fails to provide.

[Holden Caulfield]

You can't 'stop' people becoming fascists anymore than you can stop them becoming islamic radicals.

Only education can stop this, by that i mean the sort of education that bourgeois society fails to provide.

yes you can on both counts, most hardcore 'fascists' will be drawn into the whole strong man, white power, angry rebellion image that B&H (amongst others) tried to create. To combat this, by kicking their arses, stopping them from organising, making them look like the dumb ****s they are, holding demonstrations, and creating and maintaining our own scene we stop angry young men (it usually is) from being seduced into fascism.

The antifa 'scene' in parts of Europe is a good example of how we can engage with the kids and with the public to show there is a viable political and cultural alternative to fascism.

Most islamic radical have been seduced into the fold because of material conditions and a lack of working class unity, in a simlar way white kids get pulled into fascism.

Education, No-Platformism, and a leftist culture are all parts of the class struggle.
Marxism should be part of every aspect of society.

[allix]

I was reading Sartre and he said that a way to protect from fascism in a free democratic society is to not allow people to become fascist or have fascist ideas and to prevent fascists from rising in power. I thought about this and it seems that isnt that kind of fascist to say not to think in a certain way.
So is it fascist or anti fascist.

There are two simplistic ways of looking at it, by suppressing fascism there is nothing to say that suppression stops there. it could lead to banning of socialism if the capitalist system feels threatened out of existence.
The other opinion of banning fascism is that if they were to get power they would suppress any opposing view and remove freedom of speech altogether.

[Holden Caulfield]

There are two simplistic ways of looking at it, by suppressing fascism there is nothing to say that suppression stops there. it could lead to banning of socialism if the capitalist system feels threatened out of existence.
We shouldn't look at anything in a simplistic way as you miss very important features of the origional idea. For starts does Sartre as a (Maoist which is complete bull and doesnt match with his writings) communist mean a free and democratic society as in a socialist one, or the current liberal democracies? Socialism was banned and we did quite well with it what with the birth of the SPD but that isn't the point.

About supression, you could say that about anything, it is hysterical, i could say "you stop people from preaching rascism in town centres, what next I will be sent to the gulags for thinking?!". It would be stopping fascists from preaching hate and division, nothing more, nothing less.

Fascist freedom of speech vs. freedom to organise, is another issue that is important anti-fascists. Personally I think that these go hand in hand, but, for exampleI would not want to see any books banned, not Mein Kampf, not the Bible, not Where's Wally.


The other opinion of banning fascism is that if they were to get power they would suppress any opposing view and remove freedom of speech altogether
They would, they have whenever they have came to power, that is the central reason fascism exists to protect the state from enemies (usually internal).

[Melbourne Lefty]

It would be stopping fascists from preaching hate and division, nothing more, nothing less.


Define "hate and division" [is hating fascism "hate"? is preaching class warfare "division"?]

Define "fascist" [ I have enough trouble doing it myself]

There needs to be some clearly defined boundries, remember all the trotskyists and anarchists who died whilst being smeared as "fascists"?

[Holden Caulfield]

Define "hate and division" [is hating fascism "hate"? is preaching class warfare "division"?]

Fascism, as an ideology, has division and hate as an integral part of it, people are to be segregated, some are classed as inferior, racial tensions will run high. Communism preaches liberty for all, equality of all, and brotherhood of all. Violence and 'class war' would only come about if this progression is blocked.
[/URL]
What I am saying is that Donald Trump could decide he was a communist, give up his empire and live like the common man and I would call him my comrade, supporters of the BNP could realise their mistakes and join the left and I would stand shoulder to shoulder with them.

Fascism put divides between people, fascism preaches that we are all different, that we should be segregated.


Define "fascist" [ I have enough trouble doing it myself]
[URL]http://www.revleft.com/wiki/index.php/Fascism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/index.php/Fascism)

Might I also add that many people are labelled fascist, as if that makes them some kind of boogyman, I am not one of the people who does this so bringing it up is pretty irrelevant.

[Melbourne Lefty]

Fascism, as an ideology, has division and hate as an integral part of it, people are to be segregated, some are classed as inferior, racial tensions will run high. Communism preaches liberty for all, equality of all, and brotherhood of all. Violence and 'class war' would only come about if this progression is blocked.


Yes Im just pointing out how definitions and high sounding phrases can be abused in the wrong hands.

Does fascism and modern crypto fascism need to be held down? Yes absolutely.

Will some people use this as an excuse to further their own sectarian agendas? You bet.

Will the capitalist state use this as an excuse to "legally" come down on all political groups it dislikes? If we let them.

Im just urging Caution HC nothing more.

[Holden Caulfield]

Im just urging Caution HC nothing more.

Fair enuf