What Are They Playing At?

[Holden Caulfield]

Antifa has long been used to the pseudo-antifascist organisation 'Searchlight' actively harming the fight against the BNP but this is taking the piss.

Searchlight's latest genius scheme to stop the BNP in their tracks is to demand Nick Griffin apologises for denying the Holocaust. They've even got a petition set up, apparently if enough anti-fascists sign it then Griffin will sit up and take notice!

If Griffin does seize this opportunity and apologise then Searchlight have handed the BNP a major publicity coup to raise their national profile and bolster claims that they've left all that nasty fascist stuff in the past. It's not impossible that he could either, Griffin's 'modernisation' strategy has involved the ditching of what have previously been core fascist positions like compulsory repatriation from the very beginning.

The strategy of Searchlight is still stuck firmly in the 'BNP = nasty Nazis' approach that has been completely ineffective in the last few years. Do they really think people vote BNP or not depending on their opinion about the Holocaust?

This is yet another piece of evidence that Searchlight is either clueless or wasting people's time.

Stay well away.

www.antifa.org.uk

[redSHARP]

whats "searchlight"?

[Melbourne Lefty]

If Griffin does seize this opportunity and apologise then Searchlight have handed the BNP a major publicity coup to raise their national profile and bolster claims that they've left all that nasty fascist stuff in the past. It's not impossible that he could either, Griffin's 'modernisation' strategy has involved the ditching of what have previously been core fascist positions like compulsory repatriation from the very beginning.



Considering that when the BNP goes "Jew hunting" these days they are looking for members and the fact that they are doing everything BUT signing up for the IDF I dont hink this would prove too much of a problem for Nick.

People start believing the propaganda and forget that far right polititians are still just polititians.

They change their minds like the wind and swing whichever way the votes are.

which means that if it was anyone other than searchlight doing it Nick may have actually come out and apologised.

But the BNP people, especially the oldtimers, hate searchlight WAY too much. Not much to worry about here.



The strategy of Searchlight is still stuck firmly in the 'BNP = nasty Nazis' approach that has been completely ineffective in the last few years


when the economy is screwed and big bosses are supporting mass immigration to help them get lower wages there is a real danger that people could be sucked into the crude tribalism that the BNP spouts.

In the end all that the searchlight method means is that the desperate and angry people who vote for the BNP because of the nice soothing lies they tell might just start thinking of themselves as nazis since the party that they have been told is full of "nazis" is the only one standing in their area that seems to offer an alternative.

Its a fake and dangerous alternative, but they really dont have much of anything else to vote for.

[Holden Caulfield]

whats "searchlight"?

A so called 'anti-fascist' organisation that works with the state, produces a magazine, and comes up with rather strange stratagies. They most probably gather as much intelligence on the left as they do on the right.

Check Larry O'Hara's 'Searchlight for Beginners' in the Antifa publications sticky

[rednordman]

In many ways, searchlight may well have just played into the BNPs hands in this case. Its obvious that Nick Griffin says things like this to stir up a fuss. Plus, though i hate to say it (and i really do), after recieveing that e-mail, i got more of an impression that searchlight where acting desparate, and looked like an organisation that was slanderous, rather than intelligent. As HC said, they are just not taken seriously enough when they keep on repeating the 'nazi bnp' line over and over again. They need to take a more thorough shot at the target and not be too eager shoot the nazi card at the first opportunity, hoping that people will all of a sudden get it. In difficult times with less security, people need more than that.

[Melbourne Lefty]

i got more of an impression that searchlight where acting desparate, and looked like an organisation that was slanderous, rather than intelligent.

Yah it does come out like that.

When you need to mention things that happened over a decade ago to try and win a political battle today it does smack a bit of desperation.

But I dont think this is anti-fascism as a whole, just searchlight.



As HC said, they are just not taken seriously enough when they keep on repeating the 'nazi bnp' line over and over again.


I dont know much about them but I do know that they get their name in the papers a lot as an "anti-fascist organisation", they have become the way newspapers can call the BNP fascists without actually personally calling them fascists.

which is usefull in a way, we certainly dont want the media to stop mentioning the word "fascist" when they talk about the BNP. Take away the black mark of Fascism and the BNP membership would probably be double what it is now. [thankyou Nick Griffin!:lol:]

[Holden Caulfield]

When you need to mention things that happened over a decade ago to try and win a political battle today it does smack a bit of desperation.

But I dont think this is anti-fascism as a whole, just searchlight.

We must remember that certain elements of the BNP have very Nazified (i dont care if it isnt a word) pasts, and we must point this out to show the 'type' of politicians they are and to show links with their nazi past and their 'liberal right' present politics.

However this must be done with a bit of common sense, something Searchlight all too often lack. A bit of lateral thinking will show that this would be a propaganda coup for the BNP, Griffin isn't going to talk about the Jews, he is smarter than that (and after all if Hitler was around today he would probably be using Muslims as scapegoats as well).


which is usefull in a way, we certainly dont want the media to stop mentioning the word "fascist" when they talk about the BNP. Take away the black mark of Fascism and the BNP membership would probably be double what it is now. [thankyou Nick Griffin!http://www.revleft.com/vb/they-playing-ati-t100777/revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif]

The UAF also do this, but both have massive flaws we must point out. Searchlight is a state organisation, as communists we cannot rely on the state to fight fascism as ultimately it has created it. Searchlight is not an organisation any of us would want to be involved with, even UAF has some shreds of decency and leftism, whereas Searchlight does not.

We must build on our own movements, ideally speaking, Searchlight would wither away, UAF would grow beyond being a popular front and be a genuine broad leftist group who fight fascism as part of the class struggle, and Antifa would grow to act as the militant, even if unaffiliated, wing of the leftist anti-fascist/class struggleist movement.

[Dr Mindbender]

I thought searchlight was produced by the anti-nazi league, who have (had? - i think they disbanded?) close links with the SWP.

I'd like to hear input from SWP comrades on this one.

[Holden Caulfield]

I thought searchlight was produced by the anti-nazi league, who have (had? - i think they disbanded?) close links with the SWP.

I'd like to hear input from SWP comrades on this one.

ANL disbanded a long time ago to my knowledge, and Searchlight was formed by left leaning politicians way back when in the 1960's. as for the SWP/Searchlight link I think that Searchlight (or Gerry Gable individually) was a part of the steering committee for UAF, however they left following a dispute (i'm not sure what about).

That is roughly it, I hope some of the older/wiser comrades can fill in the blanks for us

[Dr Mindbender]

I thought ANL was gone, and that they had a big input if not all of it into Searchlight.

No wonder searchlight has gone down the toilet, i have memories of it being a tried and trusted read among the most militant leftists.

[Holden Caulfield]

I thought ANL was gone, and that they had a big input if not all of it into Searchlight.

No wonder searchlight has gone down the toilet, i have memories of it being a tried and trusted read among the most militant leftists.

being whores to the state means they had some good information.. but Searchlight, especially now adays, should not be an accepted tool for left wing class-struggle antifascists.

[Melbourne Lefty]

We must remember that certain elements of the BNP have very Nazified (i dont care if it isnt a word) pasts, and we must point this out to show the 'type' of politicians they are and to show links with their nazi past and their 'liberal right' present politics.



Take away Nick Griffin and how many old style nazis are left? Most have buggered off when nick started talking about Jews being a good thing.


we cannot rely on the state to fight fascism as ultimately it has created it. .

And more practically asking the capitalist state to extend its powers in relation to political groups it dislikes is just plain stupid.


struggleist

Is that a word?:lol:

[Holden Caulfield]

Take away Nick Griffin and how many old style nazis are left? Most have buggered off when nick started talking about Jews being a good thing.


Martin Wingfield came out of the woodwork recently, Barnbrook is there as well...
Its clear for all to see that Griffin and the BNP old guard are neo-nazi, its also clear to see why they have distanced themselves from anti-semitism.

If the NSDAP was around today in the same way they would be banging on about the Muslims as well, the fact that many of the BNP upper echelons are (or are secretly) anti-semetic holocaust deniers is just because they came up through the deluded world of the NF etc.



Is that a word?

I'm aiming to be some sort of Shakespeare and just use words I've made up until they catch on :)

[Melbourne Lefty]

Martin Wingfield came out of the woodwork recently, Barnbrook is there as well...

From what I can find out [wikipedia style] the likes of Wingfield and Simon Darby have always been moderates. And Barnbrook is a former Labour activist who was going out with a woman who has a mixed race child, not really the actions of a hardline nazi [then again, he was in that Gay porn film...:lol:]

I would say the top ranks of the BNP have definite fascist sympathies due to their past, however the move away from anti-semitism has also meant a move away from nazism.



If the NSDAP was around today in the same way they would be banging on about the Muslims as well,


I dont think so.

After all the NPD in Germany has cautioned its members against Islamophobia. They still just really hate Jews. If they can join with the Muslims against Israel, so much the better from their point of view.

The Nazis in the united states are similar. The original NSDAP used muslims trying to escape from discrimination and ethnic cleansing to fight for them in the Balkans.

Fascists are pragmatists, they will use and abuse any issue.

Nazis are different, they see the world as a massive struggle against "the Jew" which can never be abandoned. To a nazi there is no enemy that cannot be allied with if it gets them closer to killing off all the Jews.



I'm aiming to be some sort of Shakespeare and just use words I've made up until they catch on


Nice!

I will now try to use the word


struggleist

In general conversation!:lol:

[Holden Caulfield]

After all the NPD in Germany has cautioned its members against Islamophobia. They still just really hate Jews. If they can join with the Muslims against Israel, so much the better from their point of view.

The Nazis in the united states are similar. The original NSDAP used muslims trying to escape from discrimination and ethnic cleansing to fight for them in the Balkans.

Fascists are pragmatists, they will use and abuse any issue.

Nazis are different, they see the world as a massive struggle against "the Jew" which can never be abandoned. To a nazi there is no enemy that cannot be allied with if it gets them closer to killing off all the Jews.

Yes but I think that the the British equivelant to the NSDAP is the BNP due to the material conditons and the context of their ideals.

The way the Nazis used Muslims to fight the Jews, is similar to the way the BNP now try to use the Jews to fight the Muslims. They are not the same but they are of the same trend.

Wingfield was kicked out of the NF by Griffin back in the day dissappeared from the far right scene and then resurfaced as a northern activist of some postion for the BNP. Hardly a moderate...

not that this matter we are arguing over minor details

[Melbourne Lefty]

Yes but I think that the the British equivelant to the NSDAP is the BNP due to the material conditons and the context of their ideals.

The way the Nazis used Muslims to fight the Jews, is similar to the way the BNP now try to use the Jews to fight the Muslims. They are not the same but they are of the same trend.


They are of the same trend. They are both racist. And they both stir up racial violence, I dont think that much can ever be in dispute [unless you try to talk to a BNPer about it of course].

But the BNP dont suppose a vast Muslim conspiracy pulling the strings of the financial, media and political worlds like the nazis [and the old BNP] did about "The Jews".

Its a small difference I admit, but it makes the BNP a different, bigger and more plausible threat than its previous neo-nazi incarnation.



Wingfield was kicked out of the NF by Griffin back in the day dissappeared from the far right scene and then resurfaced as a northern activist of some postion for the BNP. Hardly a moderate...


Im just going by his blog. Maybe he just grew up [a little].


not that this matter we are arguing over minor details

true, but minor details can in the end determine strategy in this context or in others. Beating the BNP is not going to be easy unless they collapse from within as the NF did after 79.

And while anythings possible I think the modern BNP is far less likely to collapse than its previous incarnations under Tyndall and as the National Front.

And this is a place to discuss anti-fascism, if there is any place to split hairs its here.

[Holden Caulfield]

But the BNP dont suppose a vast Muslim conspiracy pulling the strings of the financial, media and political worlds like the nazis [and the old BNP] did about "The Jews".

Its a small difference I admit, but it makes the BNP a different, bigger and more plausible threat than its previous neo-nazi incarnation.


I disagree, the fear of Jewish control of capital has been part of European culture for hundreds of years, they were blamed for many negative events from the black death and beyond.

What Hitler did (obviously taking things much further, but if you think the era of mass pogroms had barely passed when he came to power) was use an unpopular group in society, and demonise them but playing on 'popular' stereotypes.

The BNP take the Muslims, and in the current climate of terrorism, cuts in services, collapse of capitalism make them to blame by playing upon stereotypes of immigrants who come to 'steal our benafits and jobs', who clog the NHS, and who are all terrorists.

The fact the NSDAP and the BNP used these different scapegoats, is how they came to win support in the context of historical and cultural effects.

There are direct links in the way they operate; as opportunist fascist parties.

[Melbourne Lefty]

What Hitler did (obviously taking things much further, but if you think the era of mass pogroms had barely passed when he came to power) was use an unpopular group in society, and demonise them but playing on 'popular' stereotypes.





There are direct links in the way they operate; as opportunist fascist parties.


I think you may be on to something there.

Allthough it has to be admitted that most capitalist and reformist parties have used "scare" groups of one kind or another in a very similar manner. Its a staple of politics.

But its certainly something to think about.

[Holden Caulfield]

I think you may be on to something there.
cheers, call me the antifascist guru..


Allthough it has to be admitted that most capitalist and reformist parties have used "scare" groups of one kind or another in a very similar manner. Its a staple of politics.

its a staple of exploitative politics, to play different groups of the workers against each other is common throughout history. The KKK was formed to make sure that the blacks and whites didnt overthrow their masters, playing on fear of racial retribution and using religion as a tool the whites were pushed to defend their masters against a perceived threat.

[Melbourne Lefty]

The KKK was formed to make sure that the blacks and whites didnt overthrow their masters, playing on fear of racial retribution and using religion as a tool the whites were pushed to defend their masters against a perceived threat.


yup, I read somewhere that only 6% of southern whites owned all the slaves.

The other 94% of whites still made up the majority of the confederate foot soldiers however.