People are ignorant

[Comrade Anarchist]

This whole economic crisis has made a lot of people mad. But what people dont seem to mind any of this when they happen in the good times. Recently Citi bank tried to buy a $50 million jet and everyone on the news was angry which made others angry but the thing is who in the hell needs a 50 million jet even when times are good. People go into this passive mind set when the economy is fine and they ignore all the jobs being shiped across borders and human rights violations that follow these moves but as soon some big company goes down and the rich dicks on wall street lose millions then everyone seems to go into this watch to see if any company is buying anything or doing anything that might seem "wrong". The activities of these people are the same whether things are good or bad and nobody gives a damn except when they have to get hurt economically. These people do this because we allow them and then everyone expects them to be nicer when the poor are getting hurt economically but what the dont understand is that these people do what they want no matter what life is like for the proletariat.
Am I right because i am sick of people talking about this stuff?

[swirling_vortex]

Part of it is due to the media. Remember back in the '04 election cycle? The economy wasn't even a factor on most people's minds. In fact, all of the economists at the time were touting that the housing market was the best place to be and that nothing would happen to it. Then, when something goes wrong, the media picks up on it and now it becomes a big deal.

The second factor is that people don't know how our economic system works. They don't know about the value of currency or labor. They aren't aware of imperialism and exploitation. They especially don't know about the boom-bust cycle that has plagued our economic system ever since the rich began to play with market manipulation back in the 1800s.

Finally, it also seems that no one really cares. I agree with your statement, no one takes notice unless it directly affects them. One possible benefit of this crisis is that it may finally make people self-aware that unrestricted capitalism sucks.

Therefore, that's why it's important to start spreading information now. You don't have to start depositing Communist Manifestos in everyone's mailbox, but getting people more familiar with socialism is a good start. It's hard to push for a movement when everyone believes that Karl Marx and Fidel Castro were the offspring of Satan. :)

[kiki75]

You may be sick of it (and if so, I suggest turning off your television and/or not reading whatever you're reading. only you can control you.), but it serves a very important purpose right now. The poor have always gotten hurt economically. This isn't something that just started in the last couple months. It's being reported b/c that's what keeps ppl in line. "You are being harmed. Be afraid. Sit and watch the others just like you be harmed. Be afraid."

Basically, we're being invited to revolt, but too many of us are sitting at home watching the news anchors talk about bs like that.

Reminds me so much of the Mayans.

[benhur]

This whole economic crisis has made a lot of people mad. But what people dont seem to mind any of this when they happen in the good times.

You're absolutely right, and this is true of all cases, not only during economic crises. The proletarians are selfish and ignorant, which is why the capitalist keeps winning all the time, is able to handle any crisis easily, because he can always count on the proletarian to be his first line of defense.

If there's job shortage, capitalist wouldn't worry, because he knows that proletarian is so stupid that he's gonna take his anger out on other (foreign) workers, rather than train his guns on the capitalist. Or, if the capitalist wants to make war (and make money off it), he knows by waving the flag, he can easily convince the worker to become all patriotic and give up his life in a foreign country and make the capitalist richer by billions.

I can go on and on, point being that we only have ourselves to blame for allowing the capitalist to use us like pawns, all the while taking it out on fellow workers.

[RebelDog]

This whole economic crisis has made a lot of people mad. But what people dont seem to mind any of this when they happen in the good times. Recently Citi bank tried to buy a $50 million jet and everyone on the news was angry which made others angry but the thing is who in the hell needs a 50 million jet even when times are good.A change in the economic fabric always causes a ripple in the social fabric. The wider population are always generally aware (as opinion polls constantly confirm) even through the 'growth' spurts of capitalism, as well as the current crisis, that there is an elite being served by government and filling their pockets (a constant point of Chomsky). The vast majority have little outlet for their angers but such is the current climate that widespread anger has been hard to ignore by the mainstream media acting in their interests in at least mentioning the plight of ordinary people who buy their papers or watch their news networks.


The activities of these people are the same whether things are good or bad and nobody gives a damn except when they have to get hurt economically. These people do this because we allow them and then everyone expects them to be nicer when the poor are getting hurt economically but what the dont understand is that these people do what they want no matter what life is like for the proletariat.
Am I right because i am sick of people talking about this stuff? I think if you engage with people they do give a damn. The only way to know is to ask them or read their actions and both give indications of deep resentment for the current system. I do not know any working class person who does not have a view on the current crisis and who is responsible for the misery of those not able to secure billions in aid from the taxpayer. They know all to well and they are severely pissed off. The deepest implications of this crisis are yet to be felt for the working class and who knows how massive the reaction to this might be.


Finally, it also seems that no one really cares.I disagree. People do care and they have strong opinions when you engage them, only to those who own the world do the cares, feelings, opinions and welfare of the wider populace not count for anything.

[JimmyJazz]

I disagree. People do care and they have strong opinions when you engage them, only to those who own the world do the cares, feelings, opinions and welfare of the wider populace not count for anything.

"This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway." -Bob Dylan

[ev]

Lol "People are ignorant" You have enlightened us!!! We are no longer ignorant!!! :rolleyes::laugh::laugh: Of course people are ignorant, look around you..

[KC]

You're ignorant.

[ev]

You're ignorant.

Less ignorant for knowing it..

[Psy]

The second factor is that people don't know how our economic system works. They don't know about the value of currency or labor. They aren't aware of imperialism and exploitation. They especially don't know about the boom-bust cycle that has plagued our economic system ever since the rich began to play with market manipulation back in the 1800s.

This is true, if you look at the previous bust cycles they always blamed factors external to capitalism plus the media really doesn't go into previous bust cycles. When the media does go into previous bust cycles is is pure revisionism saying that the bust happened because they didn't give enough power and money to the capitalist class.



Finally, it also seems that no one really cares. I agree with your statement, no one takes notice unless it directly affects them. One possible benefit of this crisis is that it may finally make people self-aware that unrestricted capitalism sucks.

Cheap credit was pacifying workers thus why individual debt skyrocketed, so now lets see what workers do without their pacifier.

[KC]

Less ignorant for knowing it..

I was referring to the OP. Sorry, I should've quoted them.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I was referring to the OP. Sorry, I should've quoted them.

People are ignorant. This is not necessarily their fault however, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Where things go wrong is where one doesn't do anything about it.

[Charles Xavier]

You're absolutely right, and this is true of all cases, not only during economic crises. The proletarians are selfish and ignorant, which is why the capitalist keeps winning all the time, is able to handle any crisis easily, because he can always count on the proletarian to be his first line of defense.

If there's job shortage, capitalist wouldn't worry, because he knows that proletarian is so stupid that he's gonna take his anger out on other (foreign) workers, rather than train his guns on the capitalist. Or, if the capitalist wants to make war (and make money off it), he knows by waving the flag, he can easily convince the worker to become all patriotic and give up his life in a foreign country and make the capitalist richer by billions.

I can go on and on, point being that we only have ourselves to blame for allowing the capitalist to use us like pawns, all the while taking it out on fellow workers.

And you consider yourself a Leftist?

Working people are part of trade union movements as well, working people dominate this forum. Just because we are leftist doesn't mean we're not working class.

The media and the capitalist classes actively try and impose divisions on working people, which is why you see sometimes racists outbreaks and whatnot. Lou Dodds has an hour long program on CNN which he non stops attacking immigrants. Its our jobs as communists and revolutionaries is to be patient with the masses. We must except the masses as they are and not as we'd like them to be. Patiently explain and raise the class consciousness of people by a persistent and dedicated struggle.

The Proletariat are you and me, they are Malcolm X, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Karl Marx, Tim Buck, Georgi Dimitrov, the anti-fascists fighters all across Europe. So please get an education.


You're ignorant.

[Socialist Scum]

Some guy I was speaking today said that the labour party was socialist, so he is going to vote conservative instead of the SP because he thinks we should try and stay away from any more socialist ideals.

I lol'd.

[Yazman]

Socialist Scum, the Cold War and associated propaganda is responsible for this mentality.

[benhur]

Socialist Scum, the Cold War and associated propaganda is responsible for this mentality.

Easy to blame propaganda. Truth is, propaganda succeeds because there are ignorant people to buy it without even asking basic questions. If I slap you hundred times, do you need someone to educate you, make you realize that you're being abused? Would you be that dumb?

Capitalists likewise have been 'slapping' the workers many times over, and yet people don't seem to realize that they're being exploited and abused. Are these people so ignorant that they need someone to educate them even on basic matters such as these?

[Psy]

Easy to blame propaganda. Truth is, propaganda succeeds because there are ignorant people to buy it without even asking basic questions. If I slap you hundred times, do you need someone to educate you, make you realize that you're being abused? Would you be that dumb?

Capitalists likewise have been 'slapping' the workers many times over, and yet people don't seem to realize that they're being exploited and abused. Are these people so ignorant that they need someone to educate them even on basic matters such as these?

The proletariat knows they are being exploited, that is not the problem, the problem is that they have a house slave mentality in that think their exploitation is not that bad and that resistance is futile. Workers for generations have been faced with labor unions that are blatantly useless thus workers became cynical about the change and looked for escapism.

[kiki75]

The proletariat knows they are being exploited, that is not the problem, the problem is that they have a house slave mentality in that think their exploitation is not that bad and that resistance is futile.
I agree.

However, I often wonder if you can really say people know they're being exploited if they can be convinced that the exploitation is not that bad. I guess the difference is that of knowing and understanding.

[Tzonteyotl]

The proletariat knows they are being exploited, that is not the problem, the problem is that they have a house slave mentality in that think their exploitation is not that bad and that resistance is futile.I agree.

However, I often wonder if you can really say people know they're being exploited if they can be convinced that the exploitation is not that bad. I guess the difference is that of knowing and understanding.

I remember my economics teacher back in high school arguing that exploitation as explained by socialist theory isn't really exploitation, as a worker "chooses" the job he/she takes. That's obviously a poor argument, but perhaps it convinced many in his classes and they don't think of their situation as exploitation. Or perhaps, if they do, they see it in isolation and not as an essential part of the overall system itself. Either way, there are plenty who are aware of the system's nature and who are willing to struggle against it.

And it's undoubtly a fact that the bourgeois try to pit sections of the working class against each other, as could be seen here in the US with the racism and ultra-nationalism promoted by the anti-immigrant policies. Nonetheless, ignorant as some may be, they won't come out of their ignorance if no one helps them to see the bigger picture.

It's understandable to get frustrated. But it's unacceptable to blame them, much less abandon them.

[swirling_vortex]

I remember my economics teacher back in high school arguing that exploitation as explained by socialist theory isn't really exploitation, as a worker "chooses" the job he/she takes. That's obviously a poor argument, but perhaps it convinced many in his classes and they don't think of their situation as exploitation. Or perhaps, if they do, they see it in isolation and not as an essential part of the overall system itself. Either way, there are plenty who are aware of the system's nature and who are willing to struggle against it.
I've often heard this argument as well. The problem is that "he who can't pay dies". If you don't work, you can't feed yourself. If you don't have higher education, then you take the risk of going into large amounts of debt for college or continue to make a poor wage. It's a potential lose-lose situation on the bottom and if you can't make the payments, then you're screwed either way.

[Tzonteyotl]

I've often heard this argument as well. The problem is that "he who can't pay dies". If you don't work, you can't feed yourself. If you don't have higher education, then you take the risk of going into large amounts of debt for college or continue to make a poor wage. It's a potential lose-lose situation on the bottom and if you can't make the payments, then you're screwed either way.

Which is why I said it was a poor argument. But perhaps others couldn't see that reality behind his scenario at the time. That, and the fact that the argument is coming from a teacher who is supposed to be preparing you for the "real world" I think make it convincing to some people. And even when they see through it, it can still be hard trying to struggle against the system when from those same days in school with those teachers they've been telling you that capitalism is it and nothing else is a viable option.

[Psy]

I agree.

However, I often wonder if you can really say people know they're being exploited if they can be convinced that the exploitation is not that bad. I guess the difference is that of knowing and understanding.

On average workers don't know what to do about their exploitation so try to escape from it through escapism, they put their energy into trying to ignore their exploitation as they didn't face it. What workers don't know is their own strength, they are like a dog chained to stake that doesn't know they could rip the stake out of the ground if it really tried, workers don't know if they really tried they could topple the entire system.