To what extent does the pro-Israel lobby shape US policy?

[GPDP]

I am of the mind that, while the Israel lobby is indeed powerful, it does not really dictate American foreign policy in regards to Israel and the Palestinians. It may have an influence, but surely it is not the main reason for the US's unwavering support for Israel, is it? Doesn't Israel's position as a foothold of American imperialism in the region matter more?

I ask this, because I got into an argument with a professor during class today over this subject. While he is very much a radical leftist in most ways (though I cannot say I can call him a socialist through and through, but he is definitely a staunch anti-capitalist), and I agree with much of his criticism of US foreign policy, when the discussion turned towards Israel and their crimes against the Palestinian people, he made it seem as if the major reason for which the US supports Israel is due to the power of the pro-Israel lobby. Of course, I challenged this notion, but unfortunately, there was little time left in class for me to bring up US geopolitical interests in the region.

He then started on about how the neo-cons and other Christian extremists had chosen to side with the Jews for whatever reason despite historical animosities against them (though he was correct in asserting that the conflict between Israel and Palestine is not about religion, as Palestinian Christians and Jews were also killed, imprisoned, and driven out), and how politicians absolutely must side with Israel, else the Israel lobby will destroy their political careers, citing Cynthia McKinney's loss of her congressional seat for her opposition to Israel's crimes.

He seems to frame the conflict as some kind of extremist Judeo-Christian conspiracy to achieve the Zionist dream, instead of looking at the problem as yet another aspect of American imperialism and capitalism, which is strange, as he is usually willing to call out the US for its imperial ambitions. But in this case, he says it is the tail that wags the dog (i.e. it is Israel that shapes US policy in the region, instead of the US giving orders to Israel, which people such as Chomsky maintain is actually the case).

So my question is: just how powerful is the Israel lobby? Does it really have the power and influence to get the US government and the politicians that make up a part of it to help attain the Zionist dream? Or is the lobby overplayed, and the reality on the ground points to Israel being a mere puppet of the US, as I suspect is the case?

[FreeFocus]

I'm yet to read it, but John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt argue in The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374177724/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196998222&sr=1-1) what your professor is arguing - that the Israel lobby, most notably AIPAC, has undue influence on American politicians. They are very relevant, of course, but are merely a symptom of the problem. I agree with your position, that Israel is basically a garrison state of American imperialism. Lobbies such as AIPAC exist because of the US' predisposition to support the state and its interests in the state. Their role is to reinforce what is already likely to occur, namely, US support for Israel, and make sure that no dissent is made possible.

The US calls the shots, not Israel.

[el_chavista]

Well, don't forget all that Holliwood-jewish-made films in which the commies, the Arabs and non-white people are allways the villains. Some kind of world propaganda in favor of WASP and capitalist supremacy.

[Dr Mindbender]

i think the thing you have to remember about the israel-us relationship is that it's a 2 way deal. Israel knows what side it's bread is buttered on so i think in some ways it's policies are dictated by the US. Only nazi nutjob conspiracy theorists believe israel dictates to america.

The argument that the US right makes for defending israel as the middle east's only 'real democracy' is a smokescreen. Israel makes a convienient watchdog in a oil rich region which is why they have so many chips stacked around it.

[Post-Something]

I think you'll find this debate with Chomsky useful:

http://www.arabic.hour.org/Video/AH_04_12_2008_Baddar_Chomsky/AH_04_12_2008_Chomsky_Baddar.wmv

[Comrade Anarchist]

I think that because we are a mainly christian nation and christians side with the jews 99% of the time I think that our politicians have to side with israel or risk losing their seat in power. That is why the U.S. doesnt act when israel bombs palestine and kills innocents.

[GPDP]

I think that because we are a mainly christian nation and christians side with the jews 99% of the time I think that our politicians have to side with israel or risk losing their seat in power. That is why the U.S. doesnt act when israel bombs palestine and kills innocents.

I think this is too simple an explanation, because it completely sidelines political and economic interests in the ME, and the role of Israel as a US satellite and a military base for US operations. It basically relegates the relationship of the US and Israel to that of some obscure ultra-religious partnership that politicians must always support for fear of political suicide. There may be some elements of this, but I doubt it's the full story, or even a major part of it, certainly not to the extent that some analysts would have us believe.

[Cumannach]

Israel is nothing more than an american puppet. It's the american's foothold in the oil rich middle east.

[GPDP]

Israel is nothing more than an american puppet. It's the american's foothold in the oil rich middle east.

I realize this, but there seems to be an unwarranted amount of otherwise-sensible people who think the Israel lobby has the US government by the balls or something like that.

[GPDP]

By the way, thank you very much for that video, Post-Something. It helps tremendously. I really should show it to my professor to see what he says.

[Post-Something]

Yeah, Chomsky gives a lot of really decent examples and paves out the argument quite well.

[Red Apex]

I think that because we are a mainly christian nation and christians side with the jews 99% of the time I think that our politicians have to side with israel or risk losing their seat in power. That is why the U.S. doesnt act when israel bombs palestine and kills innocents.

I would have to agree!

[revolution inaction]

I think that because we are a mainly christian nation and christians side with the jews 99% of the time I think that our politicians have to side with israel or risk losing their seat in power. That is why the U.S. doesnt act when israel bombs palestine and kills innocents.

Historical this is just not true, christianity has been responsible for the majority of pre nazi antisemitism
the us doesn't do any thing when turkey bombes kurds either, the fact is the US doesn't care about anyone but its self.

[Comrade Anarchist]

Historical this is just not true, christianity has been responsible for the majority of pre nazi antisemitism
the us doesn't do any thing when turkey bombes kurds either, the fact is the US doesn't care about anyone but its self.

I agree that the U.S. doesnt care about anyone but themselves but also israel. look at the past election, in order to win florida you have to be a big israel fan. The only major politician who says anything about israel are the ones that cant be voted out for a while. And yes christians are responsible for most of the anti-semitism but the number of christians in this country that support israel because of the whole jewish christian relationship is by far a much larger number.

[autotrophic]

I'm not sure how much influence israeli lobby groups have on US policy, but I would imagine it to be fairly minor because they don't really need it. Israel was one of the strongest military forces even way back before the US started supplying it with weapons and army tanks, and they proved early on that they would support US interests. So I think in the past the reason for US support had to do with the cold war. But now it's basically just to have a military presence in the middle east.

There's a good book out there by Phyllis Bennis that basically describes the Palestinian viewpoint in good detail, and shows how the US helped Israel become what it is today.