Chav free holidays

[cleef]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Chav-free_holidays_cause_outrage&in_article_id=503532&in_page_id=34

Blatant class warfare, if this was 'white/black free holidays' there would have been an uproar about this

Alistair Mclean (head of Activities abroad)

"However, I simply feel it is time the middle classes stood up for themselves.
"We work hard to make a decent home and life for our families and we pay our taxes to contribute to our society and economy. Unfortunately, everybody else in our society seems to take from us whether it is incompetent bankers or the shell-suited urchins who haunt our street corners."
He added: "So regardless of whether it is class warfare or not I make no apology for proclaiming myself to be middle class and a genuine contributor to our society."

[Dr Mindbender]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Chav-free_holidays_cause_outrage&in_article_id=503532&in_page_id=34

Blatant class warfare, if this was 'white/black free holidays' there would have been an uproar about this


Its hardly analogous. Chavs arent a race or class but a subculture. It would be closer to someone publicising 'goth free' or 'emo free' holidays. There are plenty of celebrities and people in the public domain who have climbed the class ladder but are still labelled as 'chavs'.

Also i find it highly presumptious of you to say all working class people are chavs (i'm not a fucking chav and i resent that insinuation) because anyone with a cerebellum knows this isnt the case. So despite my dislike of the article author's arrogance you can't play the 'class card' either.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Remember that whilst chav is indeed a sub culture many people belive that culture = class and henceforth when twazzocks which to attack the working class they will use the phrase "chav" since they equate the chav sub culture with the working class culture which they eqaute yet again as the working class.


Chav is a subculture but be suspicious when somone uses it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Besides, if you're a "chav" that can afford a holiday abroad you're hardly poor and indigent, especially in today's economic climate.

[Dr Mindbender]

Remember that whilst chav is indeed a sub culture many people belive that culture = class and henceforth when twazzocks which to attack the working class they will use the phrase "chav" since they equate the chav sub culture with the working class culture which they eqaute yet again as the working class.


Chav is a subculture but be suspicious when somone uses it.

I bet they won't mind encountering working class people/chavs whenever they need someone to serve them drinks and drive their tour buses.
;)

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I bet they won't mind encountering working class people/chavs whenever they need someone to serve them drinks and drive their tour buses.
;)

:lol:

I remember once whilst in Canterbury I got on a Bus and saw this women dressed as if she was going to a job interview or funeral and had this little kid with her (probably called toddy) and as they got on the bus ,the driver looked at the kid and said "you alright" and the women said in a very posh voice "I dont want your kind talking to me child" and stormed off to the back of the bus.

The driver refused to move until she got off and when she apoligised he just responded "thats lovely dear now get off the bus". It made me ten mins late but was still really entertaining to watch.

[ls]

Its hardly analogous. Chavs arent a race or class but a subculture. It would be closer to someone publicising 'goth free' or 'emo free' holidays. There are plenty of celebrities and people in the public domain who have climbed the class ladder but are still labelled as 'chavs'.

Also i find it highly presumptious of you to say all working class people are chavs (i'm not a fucking chav and i resent that insinuation) because anyone with a cerebellum knows this isnt the case. So despite my dislike of the article author's arrogance you can't play the 'class card' either.

It is both annoyingly presumptuous of cleef to say that, also the author is a ****y middle-class git hiding behind his own class card to try and justify his hating of the chav subculture.

To be honest why have anything against the chav subculture? It's only thanks to the filthy bourgeoisie culture in Britain that there are so many similarly and deeply disaffected people here, no matter what subculture or class they identify themselves with.

[Pogue]

It is both annoyingly presumptuous of cleef to say that, also the author is a ****y middle-class git hiding behind his own class card to try and justify his hating of the chav subculture.

To be honest why have anything against the chav subculture? It's only thanks to the filthy bourgeoisie culture in Britain that there are so many similarly and deeply disaffected people here, no matter what subculture or class they identify themselves with.

I agree, that twat fucking pisses me off. Everyone whose not a bigoted spolit wanker like him is sponging from society? Bollocks. Fuck him, the arogant piece of shit.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

It is both annoyingly presumptuous of cleef to say that, also the author is a ****y middle-class git hiding behind his own class card to try and justify his hating of the chav subculture.

To be honest why have anything against the chav subculture? It's only thanks to the filthy bourgeoisie culture in Britain that there are so many similarly and deeply disaffected people here, no matter what subculture or class they identify themselves with.

Brilliant. Most chavs i know are pretty decent folk , although its unfortunate that "happy slappers" and the like quite like the dress off the subculture.

[Dr Mindbender]

Brilliant. Most chavs i know are pretty decent folk , although its unfortunate that "happy slappers" and the like quite like the dress off the subculture.

Sadly the 'happy slappers' constitute the larger part of my experience of the chav phenomenon which is why i tend to distance myself from it.

Live and let live i say. I personally am indifferent to their presence but i find it all a bit alienating because culturally i find the chav world and culture materialist at best and socially reactionary at it's worst. It's difficult for myself to identify because my musical, dietary, fashion preferences etc are different to my own.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Sadly the 'happy slappers' constitute the larger part of my experience of the chav phenomenon which is why i tend to distance myself from it.

Well its really the ****s who you notice more. (For instance the div four hours ago who got punched in the face after pushing me into the road). If you get to now the ones who dont follow you or assult you they turn out to be like regular people (apart from a terrible taste in music)




Live and let live i say. I personally am indifferent to their presence but i find it all a bit alienating because culturally i find the chav world and culture materialist at best and socially reactionary at it's worst. It's difficult for myself to identify because my musical, dietary, fashion preferences etc are different to my own.


Meh most chavs I know arnt like the steryotype , they just were trackies and white hoodies etc and listen to substandard rap.

[Dr Mindbender]

What is a chav anyway?

The right media wants us to believe they're all violent, council house dwelling benefit sponges with a drugs problem but you get people with totally the opposite experience of them. It seems it's little more than a boogeyman that the right wing like to play with and working class people are so used to hearing the term they believe they are one.

Its all a load of bollocks tbh.

[Killfacer]

This is stupid. Chavs are bastards, it's what they are. Chav = Twatty little 14 year old shits who hang around in groups of 40 drinking white lightening and starting on people. That's what a chav is, so there is no such thing as a good one.

[Killfacer]

Chav's used to mean what i said above, although you do hear it more and more used about the working classes.

[Dr Mindbender]

Chav's used to mean what i said above, although you do hear it more and more used about the working classes.


One of my best mates is a goth and he's as working class as they come.

If anyone called him a chav i'd rofl. His hatred of chavs burns as redly as the star of the soviet union.

[brigadista]

This is stupid. Chavs are bastards, it's what they are. Chav = Twatty little 14 year old shits who hang around in groups of 40 drinking white lightening and starting on people. That's what a chav is, so there is no such thing as a good one.



were you never 14 ? LOL

[Killfacer]

were you never 14 ? LOL

yes i was and i did hang around in parks drinking cider and yes i was a complete fucking twat. I used to start fights over nothing.

[Dr Mindbender]

yes i was and i did hang around in parks drinking cider and yes i was a complete fucking twat. I used to start fights over nothing.

wow you must have a lot of pent-up self hatred.

[Killfacer]

One of my best mates is a goth and he's as working class as they come.

If anyone called him a chav i'd rofl. His hatred of chavs burns as redly as the star of the soviet union.

I am referring to the kind of working class who wear Kappa and Burberry but who are not "chavs". That's what occasionally people mix up.

[Killfacer]

wow you must have a lot of pent-up self hatred.

:lol: Nah i'm a happy person. I know i used to be a twat but i was younger so i am comfortable with it.

[ls]

Sadly the 'happy slappers' constitute the larger part of my experience of the chav phenomenon which is why i tend to distance myself from it.

So you've had a bad experience with people you consider chavs, I'm sure anyone who lives in the UK has. :P

At school the worst offenders were actually middle-class kids that considered themselves chavs, no really, they were the most arrogantly fucking annoying pieces of shit you could ever imagine, ever.


It's difficult for myself to identify because my musical, dietary, fashion preferences etc are different to my own.

Musically, have you ever asked all the music someone who you or they themselves deemed as a chav would listen to? Dietary? Well you eat kebabs don't you. Fashion? Everyone nowadays in the UK seems to wear blue bleedin jeans, hoodies of various kinds, similar t-shirts (so what if the logo shit is a bit different it's all the same) and so many other things. :P


What is a chav anyway?

Probably like you said, something the right media cooked up cause it sounded nice on a rainy afternoon in their smelly little office. Several nationwide middle-class ponces, or working-class tory bourgeoisie-arselick types that read that shit took it back home, said it to a few friends/neighbours/whatever else, it got around, bob's your uncle.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

What is a chav anyway?


Subculture which seems to attract quite a few bellends.

[Philosophical Materialist]

The chav subculture characterises the lumpenproletariat in the area where I live; they are very reactionary and ultra-consumerist. On the other hand there are decent people who just happen to like wearing sports clothes but these aren't chavs but they unfairly get labelled as such.

The bourgeois media has put out the false equivalence of chav = working class, which is just insulting.

[Dr Mindbender]

Musically, have you ever asked all the music someone who you or they themselves deemed as a chav would listen to? Dietary? Well you eat kebabs don't you. Fashion? Everyone nowadays in the UK seems to wear blue bleedin jeans, hoodies of various kinds, similar t-shirts (so what if the logo shit is a bit different it's all the same) and so many other things. :P


Of course i havent asked them all. Im going by the broad definition, and certainly what seems in tune with my own experiences. As for musical tastes, well i before i settled down i used to attend venues that catered for my tastes and i certainly saw no-one that resembled what i percieved to be a 'chav'. As for dietry tastes well i'm sorry to say, but even the popular conception is that the golden arches have been adopted as a 'chav brand'.

[Killfacer]

The chav subculture characterises the lumpenproletariat in the area where I live; they are very reactionary and ultra-consumerist. On the other hand there are decent people who just happen to like wearing sports clothes but these aren't chavs but they unfairly get labelled as such.

The bourgeois media has put out the false equivalence of chav = working class, which is just insulting.

This is what i have been trying to say. Chavs are pricks, all of them. However, most people accused of being chavs are not actually chavs.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I disagree you dont need to be a happy slapping overtly macho , beer bottle lobing **** to qualify as a chav.

[ls]

Well let's be fair Killfacer and Phis., we realise and have already said the media set up that shit to divide the working-class regardless.

However, let's understand that people's understanding and branding of chavs is now that. For instance I wonder what a person would have to look like for you to brand them a chav in your hometown?

Ah yes, and tell me exactly what you brand a goth as when a ****? I bet you don't have one for that. ;) (and not just you, the media also).

[Vanguard1917]

The word 'chav' is used in Britain as a label for working class people, particularly working class youth.

At a time when greens and other middle class snobs bash the masses for going on supposedly immoral and distasteful holidays abroad, the 'chav-free' holidays of this travel firm are merely attempts to cash in on common middle class prejudices.

Apparently, middle class travel is nice and refined, while working class travel is disgusting and pollutive. As the eco-miserabilist anti-aeroplane group Plane Stupid puts it, 'Our ability to live on Earth is at stake, and for what? So people can have a stag do in Prague.' Apparently, 'There’s been an enormous growth in binge-flying with the proliferation of stag and hen nights to Eastern European destinations chosen not for their architecture or culture but because people can fly there for 99p and get loaded for a tenner.'

See this article for a discussion:

'A_nasty_little_piece_of_smug_class_warfare (http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6140/)'
A Green holiday firm’s promise of ‘chav-free holidays’ for the middle classes exposes the snobbery that underpins radical eco-tourism.

[brigadista]

chav is a term popularly used by the petite bourgeoisie to bolster their insecurity about their alleged "superiority" over those they term chavs

[Iowa656]

The term "chav" is derogatory and leads to mass discrimination.

The term seems to be used for mainly working class youth who dress in sportswear/ burbery / baseball caps / hooded tops, act in gangs and drink copious amounts of alcohol. They are usually associated with being uneducated and unemployed. Clearly this is as bad as the "black = criminal" thought of the racist ideology we so very oppose. Someone who behaves, dresses or acts as a "chav" is no less human that us all.

We as communists should see through this stereotypical analogy of this emerging social group. People, even those of this forum, who refer to these as scum are seriously misunderstanding the group.

Surely we, of all people, should understand that their social being determines their conciousness. Being born into the bottom of the capitalist food chain inevitably turns them away from what human society should be about. Some of them may very well be unemployed, violent and generally a pain to society, but perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

They are our friends, our comrades, and if we do not have them on our side then there is no way we can ever defeat capitalism and class warfare.

This recent advertisement is just bourgeois attracting each other. Might as well have "Bourgeois Only, proletariats not allowed" on the front door. The modern bourgeois don't feel threatened amongst their own.

[rednordman]

Chavs = ordinary youths of today. This is a really grating tread:D. I mean, in society today we are all 'supposed to be middle-class' aint we?:rolleyes: Im sorry but this really really pisses me off. I really do think that when you are young it is actually quite hard to be anything but a 'chav'. Trust me, if you rebel as a kid, your considered a chav. If your not popular, your a chav. If you do not want to do (better word:conform) something that is seen as being aspirational or 'stay straight and fly right', your probably a chav. In fact as other posters have stated: you can even be middle class..and a chav.
In my opinion, chav nowadays simply equals somebody who doesnt fit the stereotype that the bourgeoisie/petite-borgeoisie have laid down from years to years for how they think everyone should behave.
If you want to question what i have just posted, trust me, to people whom really are 'middle-class', we are ALL chavs:). and the people who are upper class, the middle class are also chavs. and its as plural a saying as 'working class'.

and yes, the author of that article (Alistair Mclean) is a complete twat. nuffsaid.

[cleef]

The term "chav" is derogatory and leads to mass discrimination.

The term seems to be used for mainly working class youth who dress in sportswear/ burbery / baseball caps / hooded tops, act in gangs and drink copious amounts of alcohol. They are usually associated with being uneducated and unemployed. Clearly this is as bad as the "black = criminal" thought of the racist ideology we so very oppose. Someone who behaves, dresses or acts as a "chav" is no less human that us all.

We as communists should see through this stereotypical analogy of this emerging social group. People, even those of this forum, who refer to these as scum are seriously misunderstanding the group.

Surely we, of all people, should understand that their social being determines their conciousness. Being born into the bottom of the capitalist food chain inevitably turns them away from what human society should be about. Some of them may very well be unemployed, violent and generally a pain to society, but perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

They are our friends, our comrades, and if we do not have them on our side then there is no way we can ever defeat capitalism and class warfare.

This recent advertisement is just bourgeois attracting each other. Might as well have "Bourgeois Only, proletariats not allowed" on the front door. The modern bourgeois don't feel threatened amongst their own.

Yes this was kind of my point.
I wasnt stating that every member of the working class is a chav. i realise that, but as it has been stated by a few others it is a title which is mostly assigned to the working class by the media creating a (want of better phrase) 'folk devil' and a tension between the middle and working classes.
Clearly there are the dickheads who go out and want a fight but this obviously isnt just the working class.
Also Alistair mcleans comments clearly show that he is not talking about the middle class

[cleef]

What is a chav anyway?

It's an old gypsy word which originally meant boy but which has been twisted to mean

Council
Housed
And
Violent

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It's an old gypsy word which originally meant boy but which has been twisted to mean

Council
Housed
And
Violent

That's a "backronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backronym)". Which is also incorrect, since not all chavs live in council houses.

[Holden Caulfield]

That's a "backronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backronym)". Which is also incorrect, since not all chavs live in council houses.

but they are all violent?

anyhoo Chav is a newish word for the tracksuited, (and even the Fred Prerry, Henry Lloyd, Rockport) wearing working classes,

before Chav existed, or at least up north, we called them 'charvers',

although not all chavs are working class and not all the working class is a chav the word is used to label the working class in a negative way

[Zurdito]

What is a chav anyway?

yes well this is the whole problem, it is an unscientific phrase which shows the confused thinking of the society which says it. a lot of socieites have similair terms.

the outrage at people who say "how dare you chav is class based, I'm working class and not a chav" etc., shows that they don't get the fact that to a lot of people, yes, if you are working class, you are a chav, and sadly that definition is just as encompassed in the term "chav" as yours is. So why use such a deliberately confusing and evasive term in the first place? I am against using terms like this either as an insult or as a self-label (like afro-americans who call themselves "nigga", as a lot of poor people in Argentina call themselves "negro" etc.).

better to say "lumpens" IMO. this si a term which preserves the real material and social basis of the phenomenon. there are sections of the working class that become lumpenised and are hated by most of the class. this sector is also often reactionary as Marx and Engels said a century and a half ago, so it is no novelty to tell us today that "chav culture" is reactionary - so is reggaeton culture, or cumbia villera culture (an arg equivalent of chav culture based on kids from the slums who make music singing about drugs, drink, stealing, casual sex, fighting etc.) or "gansta rap" culture, or many others.

However the point is that really we should fight the moralistic middle class bigotry against these sectors and try to come up with a materialist explanation of why society is so fucked.

[cleef]

That's a "backronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backronym)". Which is also incorrect, since not all chavs live in council houses.

very true NoXion. It quickly becomes a label for those who do though

[Vanguard1917]

the outrage at people who say "how dare you chav is class based, I'm working class and not a chav" etc., shows that they don't get the fact that to a lot of people, yes, if you are working class, you are a chav, and sadly that definition is just as encompassed in the term "chav" as yours is. So why use such a deliberately confusing and evasive term in the first place? I am against using terms like this either as an insult or as a self-label (like afro-americans who call themselves "nigga", as a lot of poor people in Argentina call themselves "negro" etc.).

better to say "lumpens" IMO. this si a term which preserves the real material and social basis of the phenomenon. there are sections of the working class that become lumpenised and are hated by most of the class. this sector is also often reactionary as Marx and Engels said a century and a half ago, so it is no novelty to tell us today that "chav culture" is reactionary - so is reggaeton culture, or cumbia villera culture (an arg equivalent of chav culture based on kids from the slums who make music singing about drugs, drink, stealing, casual sex, fighting etc.) or "gansta rap" culture, or many others.

Most commonly in my experience, the word is used similar to the way that a term like 'riff raff' is used -- i.e. in reference to working class sections of society, which lack 'class', 'culture', and so on. For example, when people say something like, 'town x is filled with chavs', they usually mean by that that the town in question is not middle class enough for them.

Also, i would bet that the vast majority of the people who are referred to as 'chavs', have not ever claimed the label or used to it to describe themselves. This is why it's not really a sub-culture at all -- like skinheads, punks, skaters, or whatever.

Instead, in the majority of cases, the word 'chav' is really just old-fashioned snobbery, and it is used insultingly.