dissent

[redarmyfaction38]

just been re reading "1984" and "brave new world", a question that re occurs.
in socialist and anarchist parties/groups/societies, how should dissenters be treated? what is their role?
i ask this question because in capitalist society and the former stalinist soviet union dissent means/meant the removal from society either by isolation or ridicule or execution.
i'm one of those, that believes that dissent, the questioning of given "certainties" is a positive force in the development of human society and revolutionary parties.
at the same time, in a political party, with a given political and social aim, i believe that anyone who joined that party should not be suprised if they expelled for not working towards or questioning those goals.
are there seperate "rules" for society and political parties?

[Pogue]

just been re reading "1984" and "brave new world", a question that re occurs.
in socialist and anarchist parties/groups/societies, how should dissenters be treated? what is their role?
i ask this question because in capitalist society and the former stalinist soviet union dissent means/meant the removal from society either by isolation or ridicule or execution.
i'm one of those, that believes that dissent, the questioning of given "certainties" is a positive force in the development of human society and revolutionary parties.
at the same time, in a political party, with a given political and social aim, i believe that anyone who joined that party should not be suprised if they expelled for not working towards or questioning those goals.
are there seperate "rules" for society and political parties?

What sort of dissent do you speak of, in a communist society?

[ZeroNowhere]

just been re reading "1984" and "brave new world", a question that re occurs.
in socialist and anarchist parties/groups/societies, how should dissenters be treated? what is their role?
The same as everybody else.


i'm one of those, that believes that dissent, the questioning of given "certainties" is a positive force in the development of human society and revolutionary parties.
Sure.


at the same time, in a political party, with a given political and social aim, i believe that anyone who joined that party should not be suprised if they expelled for not working towards or questioning those goals.
are there seperate "rules" for society and political parties?
Of course. Hell, I'm a De Leonist, aren't I?
Then again, I do dislike the whole democratic centralism and 'party line' crap, and that kind of thing should be replaced by perhaps something under articles and such saying how many members of the party agree and disagree with it. So, for example, on the Vietnam War, rather than taking an official party stance like the SLP did, people would be able to say whether they agree or disagree on something, which could then be printed under the article or something, rather than 'Agree with this article or shut the fuck up'. On the other hand, it would have to keep socialist. Perhaps we could have separate libertarian and authoritarian socialist parties in the end which co-operate against capitalism, but separate in terms of solutions.

[LOLseph Stalin]

just been re reading "1984" and "brave new world", a question that re occurs.
in socialist and anarchist parties/groups/societies, how should dissenters be treated? what is their role?
i ask this question because in capitalist society and the former stalinist soviet union dissent means/meant the removal from society either by isolation or ridicule or execution.
i'm one of those, that believes that dissent, the questioning of given "certainties" is a positive force in the development of human society and revolutionary parties.
at the same time, in a political party, with a given political and social aim, i believe that anyone who joined that party should not be suprised if they expelled for not working towards or questioning those goals.
are there seperate "rules" for society and political parties?

I'm sure it probably depends on the ideology, viewpoint, etc.
I'm not an expert though.

[Comrade B]

Without dissent there shall never be progress. Free speech must always be present so that a constant revitalization of ideology is in effect.

To prevent dissent from becoming detrimental to society is why strict weapon regulation is necessary.

[Killfacer]

Slightly worrying. They should be allowed to be dissenters, if the dissenters make up a large proportion of the population then they should be listened to and their will at least partially carried out.

[Invincible Summer]

Dissent is helpful in that it can point out where possible missteps are being taken and where they can be corrected in order to better serve the populous; after all, that's basically what we're all about, yes?

Unless you're talking counter-revolutionary/reactionary forces, I think dissent should be welcomed.

[redarmyfaction38]

What sort of dissent do you speak of, in a communist society?
a minority questioning the direction society is taking for example, questioning the values of the society it helped create, somebody questioning the asssumption "communist society" is perfect maybe:ohmy:

[redarmyfaction38]

Without dissent there shall never be progress. Free speech must always be present so that a constant revitalization of ideology is in effect.

To prevent dissent from becoming detrimental to society is why strict weapon regulation is necessary.

first sentence....absolutely
the bit on weapons.....?
an armed proletariat is a fundamental requirement for socialism apparently, unless of course you can present a better argument/theory.

[redarmyfaction38]

Dissent is helpful in that it can point out where possible missteps are being taken and where they can be corrected in order to better serve the populous; after all, that's basically what we're all about, yes?

Unless you're talking counter-revolutionary/reactionary forces, I think dissent should be welcomed.

don't you think that allowing counter revolutionaries etc. to air their views encourages a questioning attitude to the reigning ideology and in fact works in the interests of revolutionaries and radical parties.
marx said question everything, trotsky said control your leaders........

[redarmyfaction38]

don't you think that allowing counter revolutionaries etc. to air their views encourages a questioning attitude to the reigning ideology and in fact works in the interests of revolutionaries and radical parties.
marx said question everything, trotsky said control your leaders........

by the way, i'm not trying to be a clever arse here, these are the questions and contradictions that raised their ugly heads time and time again through over 30 years of trade union activism and political activism that springs into action with every capitalist crisis.
i've been pretty busy over the last 30 years :D.
these questions have led to massive political mood swings, bi polar would be a good description.
and i'm still none the wiser, the total defeat of everything i want to believe in, would be a "communist" society with no room for dissent, yet at the same time, it takes a thoroughly disciplined and commited working class revolutionary party to bring about the society i want and there is no room for dissent in a revolutionary party.
confused? i am.

[Kassad]

Dissent is not a bad thing. Dissent spawns from a fundamental problem in a society, system or community and the fact that there is dissent means that there is something we can improve on. Evolution didn't end with us growing thumbs, so dissent is a continuation of human evolution towards the most 'perfect' society we can achieve. As long as dissenters aren't threatening violence or destruction, I see no reaon why their ideas and opinions cannot be incorporated into the ongoing revolution.

[jake williams]

I'm a hardliner when it comes to free speech and dissent. I basically never support prosecution or imprisonment of dissidents, even if I happen to hate them. Free political discussion is too important.

[Invincible Summer]

don't you think that allowing counter revolutionaries etc. to air their views encourages a questioning attitude to the reigning ideology and in fact works in the interests of revolutionaries and radical parties.
marx said question everything, trotsky said control your leaders........

Just a tip: you can quote multiple people in one post, so you don`t have to click "reply" to everything and have 5 diff posts.


When I think of counter-revolutionaries, I think of people convinced on tearing down all the gains that the revolution has brought, possibly bringing it back to capitalism. They try to recruit others in bringing down the revolution, perhaps even using armed force against the revolution. This isn't helpful at all - in fact, it's dangerous.

IMO, dissenters differ in that they are skeptical/cynical about the revolution and may be critical of things that are happening, but aren't trying to bring capitalism back. This is useful as constructive criticism.