Sports: A Divisive Form of Nationalism?

[Kassad]

I'm not much of a sports fan. Never have been. I've grown up in Columbus, Ohio and anyone from the area or in the United States can probably tell you that the only thing that comes out of Columbus, Ohio is corn and Ohio State football (American football). This city revolves around football. The mood of the people here literally rises and falls based on Ohio State's record.

Well, I was at a hockey game last night and I got to thinking. Throughout the course of say, the last fifty years, how many riots, deaths, fights and destructive disputes have risen from sporting events? After the Ohio State/Michigan game, there is usually a riot. After lots of football (soccer) games in Europe, there always seem to be riots, fires and assorted destruction.

Watching the game, it's amazing how much people get into the game and how many emotions they place inside the arena. People become happy, sad, angry and other assortments of emotions. It almost seemed like a sense of nationalism. Much like people defend, riot and become emotional for their nation, they often do the same for sports.

So I was wondering. What do you guys think about athletic events and the sort of nationalistic fervor that seems to be produced because of it? Do you think that sports are bourgeoisie in nature with elaborate and divisive productions behind them, or is it irrelevant to the revolution and class struggle?

[F9]

First of all american "football" isnt fotball! :p
Second i officially hate you after this statement...(Not really;))
Third you are "completely wrong" and misunderstood the whole point of sports!Mainly there is fun in it, should we take away anything that its for fun but it might change a lot of people emotions?
Yeah sports can become passion(cugh cugh), and even a way of life, but i fail to see the "non good part" of this!!
A lot riots fights etc rise from strikes, demonstrations etc.Should we stop doing those too?Stadiums usually can break the "moral standards" of people and revolt and act in a way where they wouldnt do usually!
For example one week before there was a football game of my team, in our stadium!A small "fight" started with the opposing team fans(fucking fascists btw) but no fight with hands, from a long distance just coins exchange some rocks lighters etc things people have on them!In some time those stoped and fans returned to their positions to watch football again, but at that moment cops entered from the gates and with special equipment started beating around people for nothing, they beat small kids who finded in front of them and etc fucking things cops usually do for nothing!Then a small amount of our fans reacted and managed to make the cops to stand back a little to stop beating innoscent peoplem then those sprayed us with chemichals which ended in the whole part of the stadium affecting 5000 people, mostly kids!After that the anger of the fans exploaded where they saw there kids feeling really bad, cant breath etc, and people who never react at police brutality, really attacked them whith whatever they had, toilets where at their heads, rocks and whatever they found!!Inside sports a lot of teams forward antifacism-antiracism and even anticapitalism(huge example St.Pauli) and gives us the chance to further propagandise threw this!
I wonder what the connection would be with sports and nationalism!:confused:I mean there are a lot of fans based on nationalism cultures nad "ideas"(Lazio for example-huge facists), but on the other hand there are teams based on Antifacism, leftism etc(we got Livorno mainly stalinists, St.Pauli a lot of Anarchists etc etc).

Fuserg9:star:

[Kassad]

I love a good hockey game. I've been going to them consistently for over ten years now.

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think of the corporate entities that own, preserve and produce sporting events? When I say that, I am asking what you think about teams that are owned by a corporation or run by a wealthy corporate executive. In a revolutionary socialist society, would sports and sporting teams be managed by the working class as well, merely for entertainment?

[F9]

I love a good hockey game. I've been going to them consistently for over ten years now.

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think of the corporate entities that own, preserve and produce sporting events? When I say that, I am asking what you think about teams that are owned by a corporation or run by a wealthy corporate executive. In a revolutionary socialist society, would sports and sporting teams be managed by the working class as well, merely for entertainment?

I am against the "marketing" of sports and all the "connections" modern business want to make with sports.I am TOTALLY against turning a team to a "business"!!Teams are clubs, teams-business are a "piece of shit" which just sell their products!Clubs however build on the "shirt" players wear and the ideas of the club!I dont really care who wears my teams shirt, the only thing i want from him is to respect it and play for it!!If he donts i do not want him in my team!!Football isnt a "job"!Is something far beyond that, where "normal"(not fans basically) people cant really understand if they dont live near it, live it from first hand!As fans we do not sing for the players, we sing for the team for the "shirt" and whats behind it!
In simple words "AGAINST MODERN FOOTBALL" is what describes huge amount of fans all over the world, and that contains my thinking too!

Fuserg9:star:

[ComradeOm]

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think of the corporate entities that own, preserve and produce sporting events? When I say that, I am asking what you think about teams that are owned by a corporation or run by a wealthy corporate executive. In a revolutionary socialist society, would sports and sporting teams be managed by the working class as well, merely for entertainment?Have you ever heard of amateur sport?

[Killfacer]

Fuserg said it all really. I'm a big football fan (as in proper football, not your american crap) but i am consistantly dissapointed by the epic sums of money spent.

On the nationalism front i disagree with you though. It's rarely more than banter and if it is, it's usually just hooligans beating each other up. In a post revolution society, i would like to think that there would still be football teams and leagues.

[Killfacer]

My team, Bristol City, are owned by Lansdown, he runs some barrister company and he does a really good job for Bristol city. He spends a fair bit in the transfer market whilst also keeping us in good financial health.

It's foreign owners you have to worry about particuarly, the Glazers at manchester united for example. They have made man u the most indebted club on earth and it's more of a business asset than a club. On the other hand, Aston Villa chairman Randy Learner has been excellent for them. He has changed the sponsor to a charity and he has been a great chairman.

[Pogue]

Antifa hooligans! :D

Football is about passion. It was originally working class. Corporate fucks have ruined that. Its great fun though, to play and watch. You will never ever get rid of it.

[Poum_1936]

I can only say this.

GO DUCKS!

And back to the NHL All Star game...

[iraqnevercalledmenigger]

Sports can go both ways. It can express solidarity with struggles of the oppressed like with the panther salute at the Olympics and the fight for a Black captain of the West Indian cricket team. But it doesn't cover up the hugely exploitative nature of most commercial sports that reinforce men and women's gender roles and chews up and spits out most players by age forty and leaves them chronically injured and unable to take care of themselves and family.

[Kassad]

I can only say this.

GO DUCKS!

And back to the NHL All Star game...

Go Wings. :)

[Killfacer]

Go Wings. :)

Go... support a proper sport! ;)

[Kassad]

Well, someone mentioned this earlier. How are there sports teams that express solidarity with workers, Anarchists and the revolution? Maybe, as an American, I just don't understand that concept.

[F9]

Well, someone mentioned this earlier. How are there sports teams that express solidarity with workers, Anarchists and the revolution? Maybe, as an American, I just don't understand that concept.

just a "short answer" because i am in a hurry currently!
Livorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.S._Livorno_Calcio)and St.Pauli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_St._Pauli)
if you search the forums for left-wing football teams you will find some more information too!There is one topic in Revleft sports group but i only have ever posted so isnt so "big" as others you can find!

Fuserg9:star:

[ComradeOm]

Well, someone mentioned this earlier. How are there sports teams that express solidarity with workers, Anarchists and the revolution? Maybe, as an American, I just don't understand that concept.That's because US sporting teams are franchise operations. Elsewhere the dominant model is local teams based on and drawing from the community. In many cases, particularly Continental Europe and S America, local fans actually own the clubs and elect officers to run it. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_franchising) for the differences between the models

Now obviously there is nothing inherently revolutionary about the European model but it is considerably more democratic and, even when private ownership comes into play, ensures that the club remains enmeshed in the local community. Where this community holds a particular political affiliation then its natural that some of this is imparted to the club's professional and fan structures. Italy is notorious for this with many clubs' fan clubs being openly fascist or Communist (such as Lazio and Livorno respectively). Which tends to give games between these sides a certain edge!

[Invincible Summer]

I don't think televised league sports are inherently divisive and nationalistic, as the teams mostly play against teams in their own country (I'm basing this mostly off of N. American sports: hockey, American football, baseball, basketball, etc).

I do see how soccer, rugby, and other more international sports can become nationalistic, however.

I think the Olympics is the most grand example of nationalist sport.

[Poum_1936]

Go... support a proper team ;)

Fixed.


That's because US sporting teams are franchise operations. Elsewhere the dominant model is local teams based on and drawing from the community. In many cases, particularly Continental Europe and S America, local fans actually own the clubs and elect officers to run it. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_franchising) for the differences between the models

That's really interesting. I never heard of this, never even thought of it. I really like this idea alot.

Just as long as the fans have absolutely no say in the details of coaching. Armchair coaching, in my opinion, has become one of the higher forms of comedy.

[Marion]

I'm not much of a sports fan. Never have been. I've grown up in Columbus, Ohio and anyone from the area or in the United States can probably tell you that the only thing that comes out of Columbus, Ohio is corn and Ohio State football (American football). This city revolves around football.

Erm, I've got a Columbus Crew (Major League Soccer) T-shirt. I got a friend who was visiting the States to bring it back as their logo is hilarious as it is completely and, presumably unintentionally, gay. It kinda looks like a silhouette of the Village People...

[Killfacer]

Erm, I've got a Columbus Crew (Major League Soccer) T-shirt. I got a friend who was visiting the States to bring it back as their logo is hilarious as it is completely and, presumably unintentionally, gay. It kinda looks like a silhouette of the Village People...

Yeah, i saw their logo on FIFA 08 and it's proper rubbish. That's the problem with American clubs, the have no history and they were made to be businesses.

[Dr Mindbender]

well if you've ever witnessed an England v Germany game, and the following aftermath, that is certainly very divisive.

I dont think any other sport can provoke a riot.

[StalinFanboy]

First of all american "football" isnt fotball! :p
Second i officially hate you after this statement...(Not really;))
Third you are "completely wrong" and misunderstood the whole point of sports!Mainly there is fun in it, should we take away anything that its for fun but it might change a lot of people emotions?
Yeah sports can become passion(cugh cugh), and even a way of life, but i fail to see the "non good part" of this!!
A lot riots fights etc rise from strikes, demonstrations etc.Should we stop doing those too?Stadiums usually can break the "moral standards" of people and revolt and act in a way where they wouldnt do usually!
For example one week before there was a football game of my team, in our stadium!A small "fight" started with the opposing team fans(fucking fascists btw) but no fight with hands, from a long distance just coins exchange some rocks lighters etc things people have on them!In some time those stoped and fans returned to their positions to watch football again, but at that moment cops entered from the gates and with special equipment started beating around people for nothing, they beat small kids who finded in front of them and etc fucking things cops usually do for nothing!Then a small amount of our fans reacted and managed to make the cops to stand back a little to stop beating innoscent peoplem then those sprayed us with chemichals which ended in the whole part of the stadium affecting 5000 people, mostly kids!After that the anger of the fans exploaded where they saw there kids feeling really bad, cant breath etc, and people who never react at police brutality, really attacked them whith whatever they had, toilets where at their heads, rocks and whatever they found!!Inside sports a lot of teams forward antifacism-antiracism and even anticapitalism(huge example St.Pauli) and gives us the chance to further propagandise threw this!
I wonder what the connection would be with sports and nationalism!:confused:I mean there are a lot of fans based on nationalism cultures nad "ideas"(Lazio for example-huge facists), but on the other hand there are teams based on Antifacism, leftism etc(we got Livorno mainly stalinists, St.Pauli a lot of Anarchists etc etc).

Fuserg9:star:

St Pauli is where it's at.

[DancingLarry]

My main rooting interest is as a fan of UConn women's basketball. This is kind of a unique phenomenon. The UConn wbb are probably the only women's sports team in the world that has all its games televised. That's because their games are carried on Connecticut Public Television, where every game is a little mini-pledge drive. It's the most successful locally originated programming anywhere on the PBS network. And, needless to say, "our girls" kick ass big time.

[Killfacer]

well if you've ever witnessed an England v Germany game, and the following aftermath, that is certainly very divisive.

I dont think any other sport can provoke a riot.

Nothing like smashing up Austrian shops because the germans beat us :lol:

[F9]

St Pauli is where it's at.

Germany, Hamburg specifically!

[ZeroNowhere]

St Pauli is where it's at.
Well, shit (http://www.fcstpauli.com/magazin/artikel.php?artikel=3911&type=2&menuid=57&topmenu=112). Now, if this is followed up by an identikit stadium, it ain't going to be at there for much longer.


Germany, Hamburg specifically!
I'm hoping that you're referring to St. Pauli and not HSV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virus)?

[F9]

Well, shit (http://www.fcstpauli.com/magazin/artikel.php?artikel=3911&type=2&menuid=57&topmenu=112). Now, if this is followed up by an identikit stadium, it ain't going to be at there for much longer.


I'm hoping that you're referring to St. Pauli and not HSV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virus)?

Of course.....!?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Rangi]

I like watching sport and would not like my viewing of it restricted.

[Marion]

well if you've ever witnessed an England v Germany game, and the following aftermath, that is certainly very divisive.
I dont think any other sport can provoke a riot.
Not true at all. Someone was killed the other year after rioting in Greece after a women's volleyball match (or perhaps it was a different female team sport). Its pretty regular in the States for there to be small-scale rioting after major events, e.g. cars getting flipped over after the Phillies won the World Series. There's been plenty of riots and fights at boxing matches. Of course, there was even fighting at the Australian Open tennis the other day between, I think, Croats and Serbs.

[Coggeh]

Go... support a proper sport! ;)
:DGO ON MY SON !!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: