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ls
25th January 2009, 10:42
In their 'why join us' page (http://www.afed.org.uk/why_join_afed.html) they advise reading 'Beyond Resistance' (http://www.afed.org.uk/ace/manifest.html).


In our rich metropolises we see the emergence of the modern religions of workaholicism and sacrifice ..

What precisely is wrong with that? Non-religious sacrifice, genuine unselfish sacrifice of something you place importance in for someone else's benefit are important I'd have thought? Especially within Anarchist-Communism.

What is your take on this?

Doing a quick google search for sacrifice on Anarchist websites I found a few posts on anarchistnews.org http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/5966#comment-66304
self sacrifice is not becoming rhetoric as far as i am concerned. why should revolt be about sacrifice? are not our lives sacrificed now as it is, are not these already the terms, is not consumerism just a petty compensation for our alienated, do as your told, lives? one more: are we not constantly being told by this society what our duty is? the vision should be phrased as a gain, not as a sacrifice. but i digress...my point is that there are a diverse array of ways to engage in some form of revolt, dropping out is only one of these, let's not fetish any of them.

-lord rambler

Scroll down on that page..

mainly i bring this up because a lot of people, especially the ones who talk about self sacrifice, think that they know what is in other peoples best interest. i don't know you so i don't know if you are one of these but in my opinion the idea of there being something that is best for everyone, period, such a brushing over of our differences, is the dangerous stuff of dystopias: every utopia, since no two of us think alike, can only result in dystopia because of this: what of the people who can't fit, don't fit, and don't want to fit? this is why i hate mass society: we have never been the type of animal, we are closer to wolves than ants, we are more of a pack animal.

http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/5966#comment-66323
Submitted by anon on Sat, 2009-01-10 11:14.
"Self-sacrifice", indeed. The clarion call of every tyrant, everywhere.

Think for yourself.

»

Submitted by garthelious on Sat, 2009-01-10 18:07.
Exactly what I was thinking, and for myself of course.

I used to trust environmentalists! ;)

Clearly I'm aware this does not represent, by any means, *all* or the majority views of the aforementioned believers and organisations in anarch-communism but, it seems to be a fairly common one.

Annie K.
25th January 2009, 17:48
Sacrifice is always religious. It is inevitably based on the assumption of a transcendence of one's life, interests and desires. And as any religious idea, it can only serve to reenforce the oppressive and inhuman powers against which anarchists fight.


this does not represent, by any means, *all* or the majority views of the aforementioned believersOf course. Among believers, opposition to believer's mode of thinking is rare. Fortunately, a large part of the anarchist movement is not based on beliefs, and this one will oppose sacrifice. And this part is also converging with all those who don't see the point in calling themselves anarchists. For example, there's an interesting chapter (the 12th) of the revolution of everyday life (http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/5) about sacrifice, but the whole book develop ideas that contradict directly or indirectly the very idea of sacrifice.

ls
26th January 2009, 14:14
Sacrifice is always religious.

It appears to me to come under ethics and not religion.


It is inevitably based on the assumption of a transcendence of one's life, interests and desires. And as any religious idea, it can only serve to reenforce the oppressive and inhuman powers against which anarchists fight.

How? I thought it was based on the transcendence of someone else. Obviously I understand what you're getting at but disagree, one's life interests and desires do not transcend basic compassion (which anarchists do believe in as far as I can see).


Of course. Among believers, opposition to believer's mode of thinking is rare.

This is true. ;)


Fortunately, a large part of the anarchist movement is not based on beliefs, and this one will oppose sacrifice.

It seems so.


And this part is also converging with all those who don't see the point in calling themselves anarchists. For example, there's an interesting chapter (the 12th) of the revolution of everyday life (http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/5) about sacrifice, but the whole book develop ideas that contradict directly or indirectly the very idea of sacrifice.

Thanks for that.

It seems so once again, but I've got to say, it's not painted out quite for what it is I'd say.

Annie K.
26th January 2009, 16:21
Mh... The right wording may have been "a transcendence over one's life". Anyway, one must be alive and aware of the value of his own emotions to have compassion. There is a long and twisted way from compassion to effective selflessness.


It seems so once again, but I've got to say, it's not painted out quite for what it is I'd say. I don't understand this...

ls
27th January 2009, 11:08
Mh... The right wording may have been "a transcendence over one's life". Anyway, one must be alive and aware of the value of his own emotions to have compassion.

Absolutely.


There is a long and twisted way from compassion to effective selflessness.

Please elaborate? Are you saying that selflessness is twisted? No accusations here, just wondering.


I don't understand this...

How they've described sacrifice in your link.

welshboy
27th January 2009, 12:37
I don't see revolutionary struggle as sacrifice. I'm seeking to better my own situation as well as that of my class. this is not self sacrifice but self interest. Were I to not take part in revolutionary political activity I would be sacrificing the otential for a better future for me and mine.

ls
27th January 2009, 12:42
I don't see revolutionary struggle as sacrifice.

Well it isn't..


I'm seeking to better my own situation as well as that of my class. this is not self sacrifice but self interest. Were I to not take part in revolutionary political activity I would be sacrificing the otential for a better future for me and mine.

Pretty much.

The Feral Underclass
27th January 2009, 23:40
I don't think it's that big of a deal. If you want to use the word sacrifice, use it.